Thinking Sideways: Jean Spangler

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thinking Sideways. I don't stories of things we simply don't
know the answer too. Well. Hi there, welcome to another
episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always by

(00:28):
and Steve. Yeah. So you guys ready to solve another mystery? Yeah, okay,
let's roll up our sleeves and start up solving. So,
so this week we're gonna talk about a person named
Jean Spangler Spangler, Jan Spengler. Yeah, so let's let's find

(00:49):
out what her mystery was. Okay. So she was a
dancer and a model who had also done some bit
parts in movies in the late nineteen forties, and she
lived in Los Angeles. She lived in a two bedroom
apartment with her mother, Florence, and her five year old
daughter Christine. Didn't she also live with her brother in Lawns.

(01:11):
I've seen that little that little nugget out there. But
apparently her brother was actually killed in the war, and
so they were still in good terms with her sister
in law, Sophie, and Sophie was from it was so
Sophie wasn't living there, but she was staying there. She
was from in from out of town on a visit. Yeah,
and so yeah, that would have been pretty crowded to
have everybody living there a full time, you know, But

(01:32):
I think it happens. I think that's what I said,
like on the wiki page for this and had that
on there. I think that was inaccurate. A lot of
a lot of inaccurate stuff in Wikipedia. Yeah, we're not
going to Okay, that's back to our story here. At
the time that our story begins October nine, Jeans Spangler

(01:52):
was twenty six years old. Yeah, I know, and she
had she had been in eight different movies, all of
them uncredited. Yeah, I know. The shame. She had been
married briefly to a guy named Dexter Benner. They divorced
in nineteen six and they had a baby between a
child between them, Christine, and there was a nasty court battle,
and she eventually was awarded custody of the daughter and support.

(02:16):
Well didn't she have to? Wasn't an Initially they awarded
custody to the husband, but he was such a jerk
and kept denying her visitation that eventually said yeah, Well,
the court eventually sided with her and they changed their
mind and gave custody. Hurt. Actually, the divorces interesting. They
were married for like four months. Initially, they got married

(02:36):
when she was nineteen, and they were married for four
months before they separated, and then saw each other on
and off for five years before they divorced. Yeah, come on, guys,
come on, I know that's sad. Kids today, yesterday, Okay,
back to our mystery. On October seven, Jean left her

(03:01):
daughter with with her sister in law, Sophie. Her mother
was out of town on visiting relatives in Kentucky, so
she said that she had to go see her X
about child support, which she apparently was laid on. Oh
I heard that she wanted to increase the Yeah, I
heard both of those things. Yeah. She also said that
after that she was going to go work on a
night shoot for a film, and uh, well, long story short,

(03:23):
she never came back. She never returned home, and no,
to this day, nobody knows what happened to her, or
probably somebody does, but they're not talking. Yeah. So the
next day, Sophie called the police. They took a report.
They didn't do anything because they figured, you know, it's Hollywood.
People are people are party and all. Probably yeah, yeah,
so obviously they're not gonna waste their time. And again

(03:45):
Sophie is the sister. Sophie is a sister, just making
sure who was watching Christine the daughter, Christine's daughter exactly.
So the day after that Sunday ACTO or nine, Jean's
purse was found in Griffith Park by a park ranger.
The straps on one side had been torn off, would
suggests some sort of violence. Uh, And so this galvanized
the police into action. The next day they got together

(04:08):
a bunch of cops, like sixty cops and the hunters
plus volunteers and started combing Griffith Park and they found nothing.
I think the search one on for three or four days. Well,
and Griffith's Park is a bit was a big park.
It was like it's I think it's more than that.
I just remember it. It was just a huge area
to have to search. And I don't think they searched

(04:29):
the entire park. This is at one specific Yeah, I'm
sure they comed the area around. Yeah, I'm sure they
won the ways, but yeah, that I mean searching that
entire park. Oh my god, they'd be like searching Forest
Park like yeah, it's huge, Yeah, it's really huge. Okay
back to the purse, Uh, it had no money, and
except for a silver dollar which was her lucky charm.

(04:50):
Yeah fail. Yeah, but her sister law said that she
had had no money and when she left on Friday,
So it doesn't look like roberts a motive and she
of course see that was when you're doing things like
having bit parts and as an extra in the movie,
you're not really making a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah.
So everything there was an I D. And the usual
stuff you'll find your purse. The big, the big out

(05:13):
of interest was a note which read Kirk can't wait
any longer going to see Dr Scott. It will work
best this way while mother is away, and it ends
with a comma, as if she'd been interrupted while writing
writing it. Although I've seen a photograph of the note
and I can't really tell. It looks to me like
it could just easily be a period that Yeah, so

(05:34):
I don't really know. Although you would think you would
sign a letter, yeah, I was, I was, I was
taking there would at least be initials at the bottom
and signs nothing now yeah, so it does have a
certain unfinished quality to it. On October twelve, this was
the Tuesday following or not excuse me, The Wednesday, following
the LP you got a surprise phone call from none
other than Kirk Douglas. Kirk Douglass. You don't know Kirk douglast,

(05:58):
I don't know why. Why do I know Kirk Douglas.
She's the father of Michael Douglas Spartacus Pass to Glory
PASTI glory. You are so killing me. The generational gap
really is making me feel old right now. Yeah, he was.
He was the one who was in Spartacus, not Michael Douglas,

(06:19):
was not the one that it was Kirkuk. So yeah,
then I know who he is. Yeah, okay, alright. It's
also sometimes just fun to do that blank stare with
you guys, so we both freak out. Not nice, it's fun,
it's fun. I did have heard of Kirk. Yeah. So anyway,
Kirk DA says, you all know it was a famous

(06:40):
movie star. So he phones him up just out of
the blue and tells him he totally was not the
Kirk that the note was addressed to. So he's just like, hey,
l A. P D. What's up. Yeah, that Kirk that
it's not me? Yeah, okay, that's suspicious. Maybe Yeah. James
Spangler had had a bit part of him movie recently

(07:01):
that Douglas started and called young Man with a Horn,
also starring Laura McCall and Doris Day, and apparently Delas
said that he had heard about it. Somebody that he
knew that he was acquainted with, had read about this,
recognized the name checked she was in the movie, and
mentioned it to him some studio exactly. Otherwise, Yeah, those

(07:21):
guys are probably always putting out little fires and stuff
like that, you know, so they probably said, you said, hey,
you know, talk to you Laura, then call the cops
and get get out ahead of this story. So I'm sure, yeah,
this is I mean, this is before like us Weekly
right then, like Kirk Douglas or well, there there's always
been those those Hollywood dirt rags though, where they're always
trying to find stuff about people. So you I can

(07:44):
imagine that they, as Joe put it, they're they're putting
out fires way ahead of time before those guys can
even get to Yeah, although I guess it seems like
the sort of thing that like you would figure out
a way, like your publicity manager would probably figure out
a way to like on the low down and let
the l a p. D. Know hey, we're just trying
to get out had this point, you know, it's not him,

(08:05):
instead of like personally phoning the l A p D
And being like, hey, guys, this is totally unsolicited, but
it's not me. Well it's it's really interesting too. So
he phones, like the senior investigator and I'm sure you
got some you know, some secretary or something or something
like that. Can I tell him he's calling Kirk Douglas. Yeah. Yeah,

(08:28):
by the way, as your refrigerator running. Uh so, uh
he just he told the police that he remembered talking
to her on the set a little bit, but that
other than that, he didn't know her personally at all.
When Jean's mother got back from Kentucky, she told police
that Jean had actually dated a guy named Kirk and
had gone out with him at least twice, but that

(08:49):
she didn't know his last name and had never met
him and knew nothing about him. So that was it.
So it could have been another Kirk. Oh that's right,
that's right, because this guy he always he stayed in
the car and she out and met him, so the
mother never could get a good look at him. Well,
on the other hand, if I were famous actor Kirk Douglas.

(09:10):
I don't know that. I would be like, you probably
want to keep it on the day. Yeah, I wouldn't
be like flaunting it around. I don't know. I don't
know what his like marital girlfriend status was at the time,
but I believe he didn't have one. I don't know.
I haven't done any research on him. Actually, I mean
I did a little bit, and I covered some some
unsavory thing. I'm sure we'll get into that later, but

(09:31):
I wasn't really got to bring that up very much
because I was so and then this is this episode
is not about Kirk Douglass anyway. Next scept his behavior
was my suspicious Gina. As far as dating, apparently she
was dating somebody knew at least a couple of weeks
before her disappearance. Um and but it turned out that

(09:52):
the cops tracted and he turns out he was a
writer named Peter Brooks, so nobody named Kirk. All right,
that's the high level part of it. Now, I'm gonna
go I can get in a little bit more detail
without being tedious about it than nothing, of course, I know.
So I'm gonna give you a little a little brief
timeline here there her seventh five o'clock to five thirty,
and I've seen both of them, depending on where you

(10:13):
read about this. She leaves the apartment, she's gonna go
see her ax and then gonna go to a movie. Shoot. Uh,
six o'clock. She's seen at the farmer's market at Third
and Fair Fact, which is about eight hundred two thousand
feet in north of her apartment, so pretty close by.
And there was a clerk there who saw her hanging around,
said she was there for around ninety minutes, just browsing,

(10:34):
started hanging out, and the clerk said that he got
the impression that she was waiting for somebody. I didn't
talk to her, but just got that impression. And that's
how do you get that? Okay, Well, I don't understand that.
If it's a farmer's market, and I've been to farmers markets,
what do people do. They wander from booth to booth
and they check out the wares and the goods. So

(10:57):
what I don't get is how does that infer or
that I'm waiting for someone? I mean, I mean she
was probably like looking at her watch, or look checking
the door regularly or something like that. I mean, I
think that what we classify as a farmer's market isn't
Whether it is classified as a farmer's market in the
mid forties late I don't think. I don't think that

(11:18):
that's the same thing. I don't think it's the same
sort of like street hair situation. I'm not really sure, wrong,
but you know in l A they have that famous
it's not like a farmer's market, but it's kind of
a it's a mall that's attached to what used to
be a farmer's market, and it's it's booths and stuff
like that, but it's really it's like lots of storefronts together.
I can't remember what it's called, right, and I'll be honest,

(11:38):
called the farmer's market place is still in the same spot.
It's still called the farmer's market. I don't know if
it looks the same. It looks it looks kind of demolished,
but it looks like some of the buildings are kind
of old. There's a lot of new construction around it,
but it looks like at least a few of the
buildings are old wooden buildings. Yeah, I mean I think that, Yeah,
I think we're talking about the same kind of place.

(11:59):
Maybe maybe to the farmer's market. Maybe it's not, but
it's you know, it's it's like booths. It's kind of
more like a boardwalk, I think, is maybe the way
that I would describe it. Lots of like storefronts, not
like somebody's just like brought their little car to food
and like set it up under a tent, which is
kind of what I think of with like a modern
day farmers you know. So I think you can kind

(12:20):
of say like it's all surrounded, you know, it surrounds
a square kind of area. It's easy to just kind
of be loitering and wandering, and especially if you're doing
it for ninety minutes and you really don't ever buy
anything and you kind of just are looking like it's
interestedly in things, I think it's easier to like you.
I think it's possible to say I'm sorry all that

(12:41):
to say. I think it's very possible to say it's
it'd be pretty easy to say that person was just
waiting for somebody. Yeah, long explanation, sorry, alright. Seven Back
to our timeline. Seven o'clock, She calls home to check
on her daughter and says that she'll be home later
and talked to Sophie of course. Yeah, so obviously from

(13:03):
a pay phone in the Farmer's market, because she didn't
leave there until about seven thirty Okay, by the time
she left, of course, it would be dark. I checked
sunset on that day. It was six thirty pm, let's
be specific. Yeah, and not that you know, not that
it matters all that much, but you know, it's just
easier to murder people when it's dark out. Yeah, okay.

(13:26):
Her next sighting was six hours later October, the wee
hours of October eight, Saturday morning, one thirty am, she
was seeing at a table in a restaurant called the
Cheese Box at Sunset and Laurel Canyon Um sitting with
the dark like a tall neat man as he was described,
with dark hair, thirty thirty five years old. And by
the way, the location of the Cheese Box is about

(13:47):
two miles north of her apartment, so far away from home. Yeah,
she might have got a ride, cut a bus, but
she could have easily walked it in that time. How
I'm doubting she did. She was still at the Cheese Box.
Apparently at two thirty am a different eye wouldness saw
her there. But she was sitting sitting at a different
table and arguing with with a couple of guys. And
of course, let's some of these sightings. Let's let's face

(14:08):
it might not have been her after yeah, yeah, after yeah.
So I'm I'm pretty convinced the guy at the farmer's market,
since she lifts up close by, I probably knew her,
it was familiar with so that was probably an accurate one.
So anyway, early that morning, it's just kind of vague.
She A gas station attendant reported that a convertible with

(14:30):
a man and a woman pulled in for gas, and
of course, at this time, her disappearance had not yet
hit the papers, so he had but apparently she reportedly
looked like Jeanne, and the guy in the car said
that they were going to go to Fresno. And yet
as they drove away, the woman yelled, how the police
follow this car? So the attendant called the cops, but
the cops were not able to find the car. It

(14:52):
probably was a joke. You know, is your refrigerator running? Really?
I mean, you know, it's like early morning. She's probably
drunk and just like think this would be whole area.
It's really like who's gonna how are they gonna? Yeah,
I think that probably that stuck in his mind a
little bit, and finally when he picked up the papers
and saw her picture heard about the disappearance, he started

(15:14):
his memory. His memory probably played a little trick on
him there. But then at the same time, maybe it
was her. I'm doubting it. So it's Saturday, same Saturday,
somewhere between six pm and ten pm. Her purse is
dropped at the Ferndale entrance to Griffith Park, which is
three and a half miles northeast of the cheese Box,
and the timeline for that particular the one was. But

(15:35):
the guy who found it I think his name was
Henry Angle. He was a park ranger, and he didn't
find it until Sunday, the day after. And so I'm
not sure why he's so sure it's between six and ten.
I mean, maybe he was by there at at six
pm on Saturday and didn't see it there and then
and then maybe perhaps they closed the park at ten
o'clock and shut the gates. I don't know, And that's

(15:55):
the only way I can think of that he knew
that if they closed the gates it would have been
there and they would have seen it when they closed
the gates. Well, I don't think it now. I don't
think it was right by the gates. It was about
ten feet inside the entrance here. So it just seems
like that. I mean, you do a patrol, like if
you close the gates to a park, you you close
the gates. But but you know, I mean gates to

(16:18):
a park. I doubt mean that the thing is got
a cyclone fence around it, and it's a tall chain
link fence. It's probably just bars across the road. But
any any goofball can walk by or stop and throw
something into the bushes in totally totally. So yeah, I
think that I think that this this is kind of shaky.
And also I went and looked at the park entrance

(16:40):
on Google street View. You know, you know me, I
always have to do that every story. I didn't see
any evidence of massive, massive chain link fences or anything
like that. Well, I mean a park that big. I mean,
trying to close a park like that off, you forget it.
How you can close parks like that? You know they
do this with Washington Parker for Forest Park in Portland
closed the roads so that car traffic can't get through,

(17:02):
but pedestrian traffic there's no So they just don't even
try anymore. It's not worth it, Okay. Next to our timeline,
October nine, nine am, a Fresno man saw her in
a in a bar in Fresno with a man, and
so apparently once again, so this is October nine, she

(17:22):
still has not hit the papers. Apparently she was saying
she was his nine am. She's sitting in the bar
with a guy and said something on the order of like,
you know, I just had the worst night of my life.
I don't she said that to this guy or if
he overheard her saying it. I think I think he
overheard her. Uh, And so I don't really, I don't
really believe Again, this guy, this guy was hanging out

(17:43):
the bar, probably had had a few of himself at
nine a less seriously, that might be one reason the
police discounted this and didn't take it too seriously. Okay,
So anyway, that same day the purse is found, and
of course that guess the police all hot and bo
there and they started to search the next day, Monday, October.

(18:03):
That same day, October ten, David ogul Uh, who was
a guy that Jean reportedly dated for a while or
hung out with at least he disappeared too. He was
an associate of an l A gangster named Mickey Cohen,
another one of his another one of the gang, Frank Nicole,
had managed about a month before. But these guys actually
had reasons to vanish. They were under indictment. Trying to

(18:27):
remember what they were indicted for. Conspiracy was the official
chart for that. I don't know. Conspiracy to what you know,
I mean, conspire about all sorts of things. Hard to tell.
May I remember seeing that and looking at it, to
the life of me, remember what it was. Yeah. October eleventh,
Jean was cited by three three waitresses at a restaurant

(18:48):
in Monterey. You guys know where water is, right, California? Yeah,
somewhere in California. I just wanted to make sure we
were talking, still talking about California. Still in California. But
that's that's a ways up the coast from l It's
almost to San Francisco. Well, I mean it's not as
though you can't like drive that far. I mean technically
drive from Portland to l A in one day. Yeah, Yeah,

(19:11):
I wouldn't want to try to remember the speed of
travel of cars in the roads at that time. But
given a couple of days l A to the Bay Area.
I'm not just because we go to Portland, l A.
In a day now doesn't mean that was the case before.
But to say, like it seems impossible that she could
have made a depressn terray like and a half. Yeah,

(19:34):
even without inter State five, it could be done. So
her next setting October twelfth, so somebody reported that he
saw her at a bus depot in Stockton. I actually
don't know where Stockton is, California, central central California, like
just like maybe a hundred miles east of San Francisco. Okay, yeah, yeah.
Of course on that same day that the famous movie

(19:56):
guy Kirt Doutlist called the police up its where it
totally wasn't him in that note. Next day, October, she
sided Geane. That is a sided in North Hollywood by
Shirley Anne Morris, who was a thirteen year old girl
who knew Gene. Apparently they were friends, and so this
might be a more reliable sighting. Although what she was
doing hanging out in North Hollywood I don't know, But
apparently Shirley saw her in a car with an older

(20:19):
looking guy, and she looked nervous and frightened. I bet
Shirley was an actress. Don't you think she was also
like a bit actress? Don't you think? I mean? I
think I thought she was a schoolgirl. But hey, maybe
maybe that's how they knew each other from the movies.
From she that she had done some bit parts in movies,
that she had also been a bit part. Maybe Jean
played her mom once they but that might be a

(20:40):
more reliable sighting. I don't know. And after that, no,
no major sightings reported. In October eighteenth, the police called
off the investigation. Yeah, they said they believed that she
had just taken off and was ten days later, right,
that let's be they didn't. They didn't really start their
investigation until the ninth, nine days later. Yeah cool. Yeah, Hey, guys,

(21:03):
if I ever disappear, I want you to make sure
that police look for me for longer than nine days.
We'll make sure they go at least ten. That seems
reasonable is an acceptable number. Yeah, I just see it now.
We're we will not let you quit. We will not
let you abandoned her until tomorrow. As time went by,
they continue to receive reports of sighting from all over

(21:24):
the sightings of Jane from all over the country, as
tends to happen, she was also like an attractive but
fairly nondescript white female. Yeah, I would say that would
be very easy to mistake her for a lot of
other people. Yeah. He was looking at the pictures of
her from the number of movies that she was in,
and she was probably great as an extra because she

(21:46):
didn't have a defining look. She's not going to steal
the scene from the main star. You change your hair,
she looks completely different. You change your makeup, she looked
completely different. I'm looking at somebody had a collage of
her photos, and she didn't look the same in any
of them. Yeah, so I don't I don't put a
lot of stock in any of these. She was seen

(22:07):
as far away as Mexico City, and in nineteen fifties
she was supposedly seen with Davy Ogel and Frank Nicole
in El Paso, Texas. That makes sense. I actually really
like that one. Yeah, but I have holes with it,
but I'm sure we'll talk. Yeah, I take that one
with a green of salt. But well, we'll cover that.
Why why I take that with a grain of salt
later on when we talk about the theories. Yeah, so

(22:29):
what was she up to that night before we get
into the theories that the police, as you know, she
was going to go check, go see the X, and
then go make a movie. Police checked with the X
and he said he hadn't seen her in weeks, and
his new wife back up his alibi. They also checked
her story that she was going to be filming on
a movie set that night, and they checked apparently with
all the movie companies around town, the Screen Extras Guild, etcetera.

(22:52):
And apparently now she wasn't scheduled to work on any
movies at night, and they weren't actually doing any movies
that night apparently not. Yeah, and this this was back
in the day too. They didn't They didn't do as
much location filming back in the old days, especially I
think probably at night, so they did a lot more
studio stuff. That's what the backlot is for. One of

(23:15):
the thing that they managed to unearth is they talked
to a girlfriend of hers who said that Jean had
told her that she was pregnant three months pregnant, and
that led to speculation that when she left on Friday.
She was actually going to go out and get an abortion,
which is why she told all these lives about seeing
the X and making a movie, which pretty standard in

(23:35):
that that time frame because it was illegal. Though I
don't know why you would loiter around a farmer's market
for ninety minutes waiting for somebody. Yeah, but sure, yeah,
that's not normally where you meet the doctor. Yeah, all
is go to the kindly, the kindly farmer abortionist guy
over there. So let's talk about some theories. A big
time theory is remember the note said I'm going to

(23:57):
see Dr Scott and other than everybody's the question on
everybody's mind as well, was Dr Scott an abortionist? And
did she die in in a bosched abortion? And to me,
I don't really buy this because the movements that night
suggests that she wasn't going up. I mean, you don't
hang out in the farmer's market like you say, for
ny minutes. And then there was a six hour gap

(24:18):
between the farmer's market and the cheese box at one
thirty that morning, and the cheese box is pretty much
confirmed sighting. Is that true? I think so. I think so,
but I'm not I'm not a convinced, but I was
gonna say I questioned it because it's kind of like
the guy at ninety im in the bar. It's a
bunch of people in a bar. Yeah, And there's been
times when I was out having a couple of drinks

(24:40):
and I wasn't sure if I saw Joe. But wasn't
it the waiter that it was? The one thirty am
sighting was actually the restaurant manager, believe patron. Yeah, somebody's sober,
So that's that's I put some weight on that, I guess.
But still, assuming that was her, then there was plenty

(25:01):
of time to perform an abortion. But she was seen
alive and well at one thirty am. The other thing
I don't I don't get is why would you dump
the purse in the park rather than throwing it in
a dumpster, especially with like a note like that, with
an incriminating note with your name on it. I don't know, man, Yeah,
I mean, I mean I was you know, I would
definitely have gone through the purse to make sure my
phone and my phone number, my name, not nothing that

(25:22):
points to me was in there. I mean, wouldn't you
that that? Well? I think We've talked about this before. Logically,
from our perspective, that makes sense. But if you are
frantic to cover up something, when people do frantic things,
they don't think them through and they just stash something

(25:43):
or you know, chuck it. Okay, but I guess, and
the defense of Joe's thing and not to you know,
like really go too deep and we don't. We don't.
But you know, at this point in time, abortions were
not illegal, but often botched. And if you are performing
illegal abortions, it's likely that you've watched a couple, so
you probably kind of know what to do. You're not

(26:05):
going to have that like me to freak out. This
is Yeah, that's all I will say about it, and
I think we should move on to the next. Just
one of the things though, is that that's just one
other thing that he did. He did an excellent job
of disposing of her body, which is a lot tougher
than getting rid of a purse. He did. He did
a bang up job of doing that, and then he
screws up all over the place. Unlikely. Yeah, okay, next

(26:27):
there her ex dexter Benner. They apparently there were some
rumors of abuse during the relationship, and they had that
nasty custody fight over the daughter, and he obviously wanted
the doctor the daughter back, so murdering Jean would would
be just the thing to do if you want to
get your daughter back. But of course, as we said,
he had an alibi, although it's not something I would

(26:49):
consider rock solid, because you know your wife, your wife,
wife might lie to Cara for you. Well, and here's
the thing. He and his new wife had been married
exactly almo just a month give her take a little bit,
so of course she's going to cover for him. As
soon as I read the wife said she was with

(27:09):
him all night long, like, of course that's what you
would say. I'm not saying that she's lying, but that
is just one of those things that just automatically I
have to question because so often people do that and
get proved that they're lying. Yeah, and so yeah, you
gotta take up with a grain of salt. But again,

(27:31):
she lied about going to a movie, said so after
after And that's why I'm not I'm not harping on
it because she Jean has done some things that are
throwing red flags everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I personal theory
as to why she lied. Why why she lied about
what she was gonna go do is that her mother
was out of town, sister in law is visiting, and

(27:53):
she's got a dump her kid on the sister in law. Yeah. Yeah,
she's a young, stressed mother. Yea, yeah, okay, But but
she probably thought a little embarrassed because she probably felt like,
you know, she's my guest, she's here in town, you know,
and and I should really be hanging out with her,
and instead I want to go out in party or
I want to go out in a date. So she lied,

(28:13):
She said, I've got to go see my accident. I've
got to go work on them. Let's be honest. We've
all got family members who were super nice people that
sucked to hang around. You're boring, Oh, why don't have
to listen to you? All you talk about is this
one thing? All you talk about is my dead brother,
your dead husband and how much you miss him, Like

(28:36):
you know, I'm sure that there there's a lot of
expres myriad reasons why she might want to ditcher. Yeah,
and so, but I think it was she just she
just wanted to go out in party or do something.
I don't know what. Um Anyway, so the X, I
don't think she was going to see the ex and
I tend to believe a story. They certainly never found
any evidence, yeah, to support any of that stuff. Next

(28:57):
theory blackmail. So she's pregnant with Kirk slow Child, Kirk
Douglas or Kirk somebody. The girlfriend who told the police
that Jean was pregnant also said that Jean told her
that she was going to be coming into a lot
of money soon. I didn't say how, are why, but
I would suggest that she was expecting a big blackmail payoff. Huh.

(29:18):
I never saw that. Yeah, she had been blackmail is
somebody that would be a good motive to kill her? Yeah,
of course, maybe she wasn't blackmailing. And maybe maybe Kirk
to say or whoever had gotten her pregnant. He had
a lot of money and a lot of and he
basically paid her off, basically said, look, if you have
an abortion or whatever, I'll pay you twenty five dollars

(29:39):
to just just go away now. And so she and
so maybe that's what it was. There was no blackmail
involved at all, that's possible. The problem is that still,
you know, I'm just I'm sorry, I'm just sitting here
mulling it over, and I guess it is possible. I've
seen probably too many Hollywood drama things, whether they're real

(29:59):
or made by Hollywood, where that that stuff happens. So
I can see some creedings in it. I don't really
add a lot of sock to it, but I can
see some creedens in it. Yeah, of course, Yeah, it
makes a lot more sense just to pay somebody off
rather than murder him, and because it's usually the easier route. Yeah,
of course. One one problem with this is there still
the whole question of the purse, the purse, the purse

(30:20):
with the incriminating note with Kirk's name on it. Of
course it maybe wasn't a guy named Kirk, I mean,
who knows, but there was the incriminating person note. And
and why throw I throw at the park? Why not
throw in the garbage? Can white white tear the handles
off of it, which which would indicate set up a
lot of red flags and which will indicate violence to
the police. So that just doesn't make any sense. Okay,

(30:44):
next theory, the black Dahlia killer did her in Oh, yeah,
so that happened like about three years before. Of course,
you guys are familiar with that whole thing. This year,
brunette actress, aspiring actress like like Gene Spangler was found
murdered in a like in a vacant lot, and her
body had been basically cut in two yeah, and it

(31:05):
was hideous, like you know, And so they thought at
first when she disappeared, they thought the black killer was
still out there and the police, the police actually believed this,
so though, um, wait, back up, So yeah, because my timeline,
I'm trying to remember the black doll you murders happened
before Gene di Spirit. Yeah, okay, the other way, right, Okay,

(31:27):
somehow in my head I'd mixed it up, so it's
just double checking. Yeah. But and so the police were
really thinking this. But as time went by and a
hideously mutilated body didn't turn up, the theory was pretty
much put up to pasture. I don't know, I guess
maybe you know you for three years to like perfect
your craft or whatever, right, because I can kind of
see like maybe the person who killed the black Dahlia

(31:49):
is actually like has improved and got better at hiding
a body that could also probably not. The next theory
is it was collateral damage in a mobya, because as
we know, she was hanging out with this monster guy,
and so she just happened to be at the wrong
place at the wrong time and there was a game
one killing and she might have or they been cutting
across fire, or maybe they just thought, well, she's a

(32:11):
witness killer. So that's so that's a possibility. I'm not
putting a little stock in that one. I don't. I
don't know. There's no evidence that she was actually still
hanging out with that guy, because again she was she
had a new boyfriend, and so I don't know that
she was seeing that what's his name, Davy davy Ogula. Yeah,
I don't, so, I don't. I don't really put on

(32:32):
a stock in this one. The next one is those
two guys at the cheese box restaurant that she was
arguing with. I'm guessing maybe she won the argument and
that really ticked them off. Yeah yeah, I kinda dead.
Yeah okay, oh yeah, you won the argument, but we
get the last word. Bang. Next theory, Lieutenant Scott. So

(32:55):
the police turned up another interesting thing from her past.
About four years before, while husband was off at the
war and in the Pacific, Gene and had an affair
with a guy named it was like an Air Corps lieutenant.
His name was his last name was Scott. I guess
she called her Scotty and apparently he was abusive. She
wanted to leave him. He's threatened to kill her if

(33:16):
if she did. She had actually managed to break it up,
and last last time she saw him was in nine,
four years before. There's no evidence that he became a doctor.
Remember the notes that doctor going to see doctor Scott. Yeah,
oh that's right, because the cops like poured through and
interrogated every doctor whose name last name was Scott. I

(33:37):
thought they poured over an interrogated every doctor, not just Scott's.
I thought they couldn't just hit every doctor. So they
were after all the ones that had last name of Scott.
But then the thing is that there's guys who do
things on you know, on the slide that go by

(33:57):
a code name. To Dr Scotty, he could mean anything, yeah,
so's it could have been an abortionist, It could have
been a dentist. I mean, it could have been who knows, Yeah, yeah,
it could have been a vet. Yeah. Also, beside the
fact that he wasn't a doctor, why would she go
to see the guy. She was afraid of him, Yeah,
because he was a jerk, and she had stopped hanging

(34:19):
out with him because, as you said, he was abusive. Yeah, okay,
so much for Lieutenant Scott. Next theory, she ran away
from home. And this, remember davey Ogel disappeared at the
same time she did, was led people to speculate that
perhaps they had left town together to start a new life. Yeah. Now,
don't like it. No, I don't either. She was dating

(34:39):
a new guy, for one thing, and apparently she was
happy about that, according to a witness. And I don't
think she would have abandoned her daughter. I mean she
called from the farmer's market. Yeah, I mean she exactly.
She uh. I obviously cared about her daughter. Her daughter,
she obviously if you read anything about or had a
lot of shortcomings, I mean, you know. But well, the
thing about Ogul is there's that one report that says

(35:04):
that I think it was March of nineteen fifty is
when they say that that she was quote unquote spotted
somewhere in Texas fast Okay. Well, the funny thing is,
unless she did have the pregnancy terminated, she'd have been
about six or seven months pregnant at that time, So

(35:25):
you would think that whoever had seen her and said,
oh yeah, that's Gene and wow she's super pregnant. Instead
it was just oh yeah, there's Gene. Yeah she looked
like she always did, you know, Slim Dancer's body beautiful
as can be. Unless she wasn't pregnant and that girlfriend
was lying. I mean, it's totally possible, Like that's a

(35:46):
very valid to theriend a girlfriend. Yeah, that's entirely possible.
She was lying to Kirk too, to blackmail him. Maybe
she just eating a lot of bond bonds. Yeah, yeah,
three months. I mean you can't really tell, but well
that's why I know it. Three months, but it's six
and seven. You can't hide that. Yeah, but I I
guess I just generally assumed she wasn't actually pregnant. But hey,

(36:08):
that's me highly possible she wasn't pregnant her mother after
her mother got back and everything. Her mother, her mother
also said that she would never abandoned her family, and
so you know, you got you gotta believe her mother.
Her mother obviously didn't know her that well because she
was up to a lot of stuff that her mother
wasn't like in on but well she's a twenty six
year old. Of course you're going to do things that

(36:31):
you don't tell your parents about. I mean that's just
kind of this standard operating proceeds. I don't think that's
just like a twenties thing. I think your whole life,
you kind of just do things and like generally your
parents don't necessarily need to know about that. Very true.
A lot of things and I don't tell my family
about it. I mean they're safful things that my whole

(36:52):
family doesn't know about me, like for example, this podcast.
But yeah, they don't know about it. I never will.
Actually they probably will some day and when we become
really famous famous. Oh that's right. Good point. Another problem
I have with this theory that she ran off, either
by herself or with Davey Oagel, is that she actually
passed up a really good chance to make some money

(37:13):
because her ex Dexter, who apparently was a plastics manufacturer,
I had some money, wanted the daughter back, so she
knew she was gonna blow down. And that means the
daughter goes back to Dexter. Then why wouldn't she approach
Dexter and say hey, and I'll give me a couple
of grand and I'll give custody back to you. And
that's well, there's a point there, but that also again

(37:36):
that just circles me back to him, because of course,
once she disappears, the court re awards him custody of
their daughter, and he goes right back to his same
old behavior of the grandmother is trying to visit the
daughter and he keeps blocking it, not letting her see her.

(37:58):
And I think that the mother tried to take some
kind of legal action against him, at which point he
just said oh, okay, great and left the state. Yeah,
now he was gone. Good luck. He was sentenced to
five days suspended in jail for for for not abiding
by because because apparently it was the court ordered him

(38:18):
to allow the grandfather grandmother to see the daughter, and
then he continued to be obstructive, and so he was
sentenced to fifteen days in jail, not suspended. And that's
when he took the wife and and the daughter and
left the state and moved to Florida, where he lived
until he was eighty seven years old. Um, so there's
just no good theories about this. But another another theory

(38:40):
that I have. That's not really one that you see
all over the internet. Is that. Uh, she perhaps was
she perhaps had a sideline. Let's remember she was broke,
super broke. Perhaps and I hate to say this, but
perhaps she had a sideline to say, an escort. And
she she was a dancer. She was a very attractive

(39:03):
woman by I would say modern and classic standards. So
it wasn't as if, you know, she couldn't have done that.
I would also explain why she was sided with multiple
of different men at the same location. Yeah, at night,
it would all try Yeah, and then it would also
explain why you would lie, right, you know, I want

(39:23):
to tell people I'm gonna go I'm gonna go out
and do a little prostitute. You know, Mom may just
think that. Yeah, she goes and she does these night shoots,
you know, two or three days a week, and you know,
the studio is paying her pretty decently for being an
extra in a night shoot, so what the heck? And
you know, conveniently, none of those movies that were actually
getting made right or well, no, they cut my scene sorry,

(39:48):
which actually happens to people all the time. Yeah, I
was in an extra movie years ago, and I finally,
years later, got around to watching the movie to see
if I could find myself in because when I went
to the set, it was a big crowd scene. So
I wore a bright orange T shirt even so I
could never find myself. Yeah, that's they cut my scene.
Damn it. They were like, you know, we use the

(40:10):
scene except there was that idiot orange shirt. The orange shirt. Yeah,
it was. It was hilarious. It's huge crowd scene and
it's like this, uh, this one guy, this roller coaster
with George Siegel, Timothy Bottom. I have no idea that
was never a blockbuster. Yeah, but there says one couple.

(40:30):
They were kind of what's the sword on saying, kind
of trashy looking and that kind of they kind of
looked they were extras. They were among the extras that
we were all extras and so and so there's a
there's the guys with the bullhorns directing us around, telling
us where to go. And at the end, up the
beginning of the first scene, she climbs up on his
shoulders and she's like all going like this is the
wave of her arms in the air on his shoulders

(40:51):
and everything, and uh, and then we're done. They stay cut,
you know, and then the guy with the bullhorn goes
out says, that's really awesome and I'm really nice. Touch
what you guys, did you gonna have to do that
in every take, every text today? Good job? Stupid. Yeah,
I know that was a total total diversion there. Uh so,

(41:13):
but as we know from our our our tends to
research Jack the Ripper and my other things that if
you if you engage back to the whole, she might
have been an escort or prostitute kind of thing. Um,
if you engage in that, well you run a chance
that you're going to meet Mr. Serial killer. Well, and
not even Mr. Serial killer. There's the crime of opportunity.

(41:37):
Gentlemen who take upon those services aren't always in the
clearest frame of mind. And I mean that from bold
They're intoxicated on something, whether it be booze or drugs,
or they're not always a square in the head. I mean,
there's just these things happen, and that's why that that

(41:57):
that profession and I'm using that term loosely, but that
profession is not joriously dangerous, that kind of is. Yeah,
So I think that it's it's entirely possible if this guy.
I say, if she'd met up with a guy and
the guy had wheels to get to to get to
Griffith Park from there, if they were if she was
still hanging out on Sunset where the cheese box was.

(42:20):
To get to Griffith Park, it's a straight shot. You
go east until you get to Western Avenue and they
turn left, go north takes you straight there, and they're
very easy. So you might have said, you know, let's
let's go to some place a little more romantic than
then Sunset Strip. Let's go up to Griffith Park and
then what's up there? Well, you know, once she realizes
that things are kind of going south and that his

(42:41):
intentions aren't so good after all, then she tries to
get away from him. He grabs her purse, She rips
the rips it loose, he drops it, chases her down,
and that's the end of the story. And he doesn't
bother going back for the purse. The only thing is
the note. The note, well, the note doesn't make any difference.
This is a random dude. The still hasn't explained. It

(43:01):
doesn't have to be though, I mean, it could just
be a random something that she was writing to her
friend that worked at the food cart at the at
the the place. All. Yeah, well, but you know the
other thing is that I know that this is gonna
sound like I am just beating up on the Kirk

(43:22):
Douglas theory again, But I just I really have a
hard time letting go of that, only because of all
of the stories of his bad behavior. And we'll leave
out the whole story about a rape that he supposedly did.
But he was notorious for being a player and knocking

(43:46):
women around. He was known for for being that guy,
so you know, and he went to houses of ill
repute supposedly on a regular basis. I could see him
being one of those dudes. He's like, Hey, you're a
cute extra, don't you come to my trailer? And then
when suddenly there's you know, a product of that union

(44:09):
he's not doing, He's just like, well, well, I guess
I could pay her off. You know what. No, I'm
I'm not gonna pay her. I'm just gonna take care
of this, or I'm gonna have somebody take care of it,
which is then would give the guilty conscious why I
would have Three days later, he called the cops. Know
it's would have been about five. Yeah, suddenly he's just

(44:31):
you know, freaking out, like, oh my god, I didn't
think this would be this, you know, in the news
so big. I gotta do something about it. I just
I have a really hard time letting go of what
I read about him and their connections. Seems very slight,
I admit, but it's really hard for me to let

(44:53):
go just from the things that I've read about him. Yeah,
the uh, I mean, definitely, if you wanted to get
ahead in Hollywood, if you're if you are an aspiring
actress in those days, the casting couch was pretty much
a given for almost every actress in those days. And
so it was and probably it wasn't just a studio
the studio big wigs that you had sex with. You
probably in order to get an in have a connection

(45:15):
and have sex with Kirk Douglas or some famous was
the top dog on the pot. Yeah he was. He
was the man. Yeah, he was the Chuck Norris of
the day. Oh my gosh, thank you, thank you, Chuck Norris.

(45:36):
Can we can we move away from that? I'm sorry
I brought that up. What's wrong with Chuck Norlash? Just
keep going please? Right now? That we're done. Slandering Kirk Douglas.
I guess I could wrap it up and you guys
have any more thoughts? No, my slandering Kirk Douglas evidently
was the only thing I had to say. Yeah, And

(45:56):
I just think it's a huge old mystery. It's a
big volvable Joe thinks, big old Mr. Two I you know,
I mean it may well be too that you never
know who. I mean, because she was. She was in
eight movies, uncredited of course, but I mean within eight
whole movies. Yeah, had a total of four and a

(46:17):
half minutes of film, if that much. But the thing
about it is is in she was, she was attractive,
and she probably attracted the attention of not just Kirk douglast,
but probably some other movie star types. And uh, you know,
I mean she may have had some things going on
with other other Hollywood actors and air duels. I mean,

(46:40):
so yeah, So maybe it wasn't Kirk douglist. It could
have been a studio head. I don't know. Alright, Well,
I think I think that was Well, we haven't quite
solved this one. Was we'll put this, we'll make this
almost there, but not quite. I'm going to give this
three and a half stars Unsolved Radio. I think that's fair.
Three and a half stars on scale of fifteen us
about right. Yeah, uh so, folks, that's it for this week.

(47:06):
Of course, you if you don't know where to find us,
you can find us on iTunes. Please of course stop
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join the group. You can also find us on Stitcher,

(47:27):
although if you found us on Stitcher you're probably not
hearing this because Stitcher has developed this tendency to trunk
aator episodes. That's something we're working on. But yeah, someday
they will figure out what's going on. Yeah, it's a
little frustrating. I'm sure it's even more frustrating for the
people who are streaming our episodes. You can also send
us an email. Are email address which is Stinking Sideways

(47:49):
Podcast at gmail dot com. You all have been great
about that. A lot of lots of emails lately, and
that don't so many suggestions. Yeah, lots of great suggestions.
We try. We're kind of hitting this point right where
we like try to have a good mix of like
listener suggestions and things you've come up with. But at
this point, you guys have like either recommended everything that

(48:09):
I ever knew about, or like, there are so many
piling up and I feel bad about not doing them.
That just get ready because I think it's possible that,
like for the next year all of my episodes are
going to be listeners suggestions. Yeah, so sorry everywhere, you know,
And I've got a few ideas for how we might
handle some of that that well, we'll let everybody know
once we suss it all out. Secrets. I'm always always

(48:32):
scheming and planning. And I did that actually check the
list of listener suggestions to see if somebody has suggested
Gene Spangler. I know, I found this one on my own,
so no, but like, you know, just this week, we
got an email that I happened to be on and
respond to, and you know, this person said, oh, I'd
love to hear you tackle this mystery, and I was like, wow,
I was literally just thinking about doing that next week.

(48:55):
That's why when I was researching Lori Erica, same check
the email and it's like, yeah, can't you do this one?
And it's like, yeah, I guess. I guess we'll get that,
right too, I guess yeah, will you ask, we'll be
And so also, if you want to find this episode
somewhere and you don't want to go to itune just stitch,
you can find it on our website because you're not

(49:16):
listening to it right now. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, okay,
so if you want to find future episodes, let me
put it that way, taking Sideways podcast dot com. There
you'll find links also, and um also there's a survey,
so if you want to take a moment to fill
up the survey, that would be really cool. It's not
one of those long, tedious ones, right No, No, it's

(49:36):
like it's like, you know, like like would you give
your mail child Sideways podcast? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah, okay,
I'll take it right now. Yeah, me too. I gotta
take it like fifty or sixty times. Yeah. Yeah, that's
why I was doing different every year. Yeah, okay, folks,
Well that's it until next week for taking Sideways the podcast.

(50:00):
This is Joe's signing off. I apologize for my co
host Bye