CLASSICS (Bonus Episode): James Fox's "Moment of Contact"

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bubo. These guys
are your favorites, so like share, subscribe and raid.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It lip stary S and.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Me righteous on yesterday and listening, oh watching them always
keep its watching.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Bubo Fay Cliff, Yes, I got us a very important
guest today. He's a repeat customer. He's in high demand.
He's got the top movie out right now on UFOs
and so he's got to get jump right into it.
So let's just give a hearty welcome to James Fox.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Welcome James.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Hey, guys, a lot of fun to be back on
the show.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
All appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
We appreciate.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's just not often that UFO people come and hang
out with the bigfoot folks.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
You know.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
It just shows that we can all get along.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's great, right all were missing on the crop circles.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Oh yeah, well, well hopefully I'm hoping we can bring
some of that in there too.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
We'll see. I was going to say, after the Navy
released those videos and UFOs, UAP's got a lot more
pred We went from being last nighting than you guys,
now were the nut of your group of the UFO people,
the Bigfoot people.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, you know, it's really funny because I haven't stuck
my teeth into the Bigfoot story. However, I have a
couple of very close friends, people that I grew up with,
that had reluctantly shared chilling accounts of encounters with this tall,
hairy guy. And so I grew up kind of thinking like, wow, man,

(01:43):
I really believe my friends tell me these stories. And
then just like a couple of days ago, I went
on a podcast and I'm sorry because I've been on
so many podcasts recently with promotion of moment of contact.
The guy said, yeah, I also do bigfoot stories, and wow,
really okay, And I told him about my cousin having

(02:03):
seen one. I told him about some of my friends
having this encounter. He goes, oh, yeah, I just did
this interview with a deer hunter in Mississippi that had
this dramatic encounter from like thirty or forty feet up
in a tree, and my gosh, he sent me the
podcast and it was chilling.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
On a power line cut.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah exactly. I think it's a Oh dude.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
That's that's the best one I've heard in AXT few years.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
I mean, he said that the creature was speaking some
weird language.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, have you heard that before? Oh yeah, I've heard
it personally. I can count it on one hand how
many times I've heard it. It's pretty rare. But when
you hear it, it's it's it is. I think it
might be more incredible to hear them talk than it
is to see one.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, that's what he was saying. That part of it
was so crazy. And then he said that when he
was considering, you know, he looked at it through the
scope of his rifle and he was considering pulling trigger
and hit blasting this in the face. He said the
face was so human like, it was like trying to
almost murder a human being, and that it would go
sideways and look at him like, don't you do it?

(03:10):
And he didn't obviously do it in the end, But wow,
that was an incredible It's one of the most incredible
stories I've ever heard in terms of you know, encounters
with with with a bigfoot.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
And he's totally believable. The guy was totally believable.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Totally believable, totally believable. My god. And he said he
was even like he was like ah. Before I thought
it was all nonsense. I made fun of people that
claim to have seen this thing. He goes, but I
had this encounter and he didn't say I don't even
think he said the word bigfoot. He just said to
this creature, this tall guy, like you know. Oh, anyway,
it was. It was amazing. I don't know about you guys.

(03:43):
Have you guys spoken to that guy.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
No, I want to.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
I've not spoken to him either.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
No, you guys should talk to him, man, because you'd
know that all the right questions to ask.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
Cliff.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
I tried to listen to it. You said you didn't
want to.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
I just who has time, man, I've got three businesses
I run.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
No, I barely have time. I feel terrible. My son's like, daddy,
you promised that you do this with Daddy you probably
I'm like, oh my god, I have to have more
time for my son, and I do.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
I do.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
But you know, when you finish a movie, you got
to promote it. I mean, it is.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Where it is, right.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
How is your movie doing number one right now?

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Number one doc in the world on iTunes.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Let's see. Yeah, uh yeah, number one.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
You can't do too much better than that.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Oh, I'm very happy about that.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
And then it's it's very high in the I don't know,
four or five for all independent films and docs altogether,
so it seems to be doing really well. I was
wearied because it's such a crazy story.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was pretty nuts, man.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Pretty nuts. I mean, I have been investigating UFO reports
for almost thirty years. I've made six documentaries, and I've
never ever covered a story this crazy. In fact, I
had trouble, and okay, I didn't have trouble.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
I had.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
I completely dismissed this story back in late nineties, and
I'll remind your audience that I made I just finished
my first UFO doc. I was working on my second one,
which is ultimately ended up being Out of the Blue,
which I did the directors director's cut after that, and
I did I know what I saw that the phenomenon
now a moment of contact, But I I dismissed it

(05:31):
so quickly because I thought there's no way that a
UFO could crash and lie. You know, these occupants apparently survived,
and we're walking through this town and broad daylight, witnessed
by civilians and military and police and fired apartment people.
You know, they had this whole blockade of military trucks

(05:53):
from the military from the base.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
As a.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
I just saw, it's impossible, you know, I just I
just wrote it off and I didn't think about it
again for ten years until I went to Brazil. But anyway,
so I knew the level of skepticism from myself, someone
who makes documentaries on UFOs didn't believe it. So I thought, well,
this is going to be a real fine line here,
and we're going to see. I'm kind of putting my

(06:18):
credibility to the test. But so far it seems to
be remarkably well received and performing very well and great
reviews and you know what, could I say?

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah, three thumbs up for me.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Oh thanks? So when did you guys watch it?

Speaker 1 (06:33):
I watched it last week, about a week and a
half ago.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
So Cliff, so tell me what did you expect. I'm
just curious. Did you know anything about the case prior
to this?

Speaker 1 (06:42):
No? No, no, I'd never heard anything about it. And
you know, I watched your last movie, but when you're
last wearing the podcast a phenomenon phenomenon. Yeah, I have
a terrible memory, Please forgive me. So I was kind
of looked. I was thinking, well, that was an excellent
I mean, phenomenon is great. I loved it, you know,
And so I said, I'm really looking forward to this,
and sure enough at deliberate it again because I think
one of the neat things for me about this and

(07:04):
phenomenon as well, is one of the things that I
like to do in bigfooting, and you're doing something similar
in the UFO phenomenon, is that I'm interested in these
these so called cold cases, you know, these older cases.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
Now.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Now, don't get me wrong, I prefer if somebody saw
a sasquatch this morning and I got the call, and
I would be there tonight. I prefer that. But a
lot of people put the bed these older stories and
assume that everything has been done, like all the value
has already been gotten out of this. The rag is dry,
you know, we've already wrung this. There's no more water
left in the rag, so to speak. Now, again, I

(07:39):
don't know anything about the UFO stuff, which is part
of the reason I love having you wrong, because I
get to learn so much. I don't know how deeply
plumbed this particular story was. But I find when I
go back to the historical stuff, the historical kind of
standard Bigfoot classics, and I start scratching the surface. Turns out,
those initial investigators, no matter how great they think they are,

(08:01):
no matter how high the pedestal we put them on,
there's a lot of glaring omissions and what they should
have done, you know, with the benefit of hindsight, you know. So,
And that's what I was. That's what I appreciated and
really loved about this particular story, digging up those witnesses,
those women who observe this, this creature, this animal, this
this being when they were much much younger, and talking

(08:23):
to them now, just like you did a phenomenon where
you talk to the school children about what they saw
and now that they're adults. I really really enjoyed that.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Hmm, isn't that crazy? They came within eight to ten
feet broad daylight of this creature?

Speaker 3 (08:37):
Did what are from it? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Sulfur ammonia was so weird. So why don't for your
audience I give a little snapshot history of the case.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, yeah, that'd be best because we have the benefit
of having seen the documentary and our audience will be
doing that soon, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
So I'll do a quick synopsis and then I can
go into more detail. And the nice thing about this case,
it's commonly referred to is the Roswell of Brazil, but
it happened in January of nineteen ninety six, so the
vast majority of witnesses are still alive, unlike Roswell, which
happened in forty seven. So you get reports of it's

(09:13):
January nineteen ninety six, you get reports of an unidentified
cigar shaped object flying very low and very slow and
somewhat rickety. It had a gash in the side. It
had no wings, no tail, no visible means of propulsion whatsoever.

(09:33):
It had white vapor coming out the backside.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
It said.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
It was not like smoke from a fire. It was different.
It was a white vapor.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
It was like a blown headgascoot.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, I know, he got water in the in the
in the in the oil. But the object was flying
very slowly, somewhat erratically. A couple of farmers had witnessed it.
Other people in the town had witnessed it, but they
didn't actually witness it. It hit the ground. It looked
like it was going to hit the ground, but it didn't.

(10:04):
And then on January the morning of January thirteenth, nineteen
ninety six, there was a gentleman by the name of
Carlos Desauza. He's a history professor as well as an
ultra light amateur ultra light pilot, and he was driving
from sou Palo to the state of minister Ice, which
is about five hours to the north. In the state

(10:27):
of minister Ice is the town of Virginia. And he
was just I don't know, maybe six or ten miles
outside of Virginia, driving on the freeway. It's about five am.
He's going to meet a crew of ultra light pilots
to go flying that day, and he sees this cigar
shaped craft with a gash in the side of it.
He doesn't know what he's looking at, but he clearly

(10:48):
can see that it's in trouble and it's going down.
It crashes into the ground. He turns off the freeway
and goes up to this farm called the Myolini Font
and he comes upon a debris field about the size
of a football field, and a vast majority of the
craft had broken apart, but there was still one large

(11:10):
section still intact that was about the size of a
very small house. And this debris was like tinfoil, very bright, metallic,
and he picked a piece of it up. He said,
when he first got out of the car, he just
couldn't believe the smell. It was so like ammonia and
sulfur that was so powerful. His eyes were watering and

(11:32):
he had to use his t shirt to cover his
nose and his mouth. He came upon some of this debris,
he picked it up in his hands, he said. He
crumpled it up and it regained its shape all on
its own. And he's just thinking, like, what, you know,
what did I come across? What did I stumble across?
And then these military trucks started driving in from the

(11:55):
opposite direction that he entered, and at gunpoint they forced
him out of it. And I'm giving you again the
truncated version here. He jumped in his car. He left.
He was kind of calming himself, having a coffee about
a half an hour up the road. And as he
was leaving this gas station, two men in suits gave
him a visit. They knew exactly who he was, his

(12:16):
full name, where he lived, all about him, he said.
They knew everything about him. And don't talk about what
you saw. You didn't see anything. If anybody asked you, you
didn't see anything. If you talk about what you saw,
things are going to get very weird for you.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
About six seven days later, about six to ten miles
away in the town of Virginia, these strange creatures Beans
whatever you want to call him, were seen by, and
an odd unusual military presence in the town of Virginia
were seen by.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Well.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
The three primary witnesses that had been the most vocal
are three girls. There were fourteenth, sixteen and twenty one,
two sisters, Liliani and Valkyria, and then they had They
were with an older friend who was twenty one. Her
name was Katya. They were taking a shortcut through a
little field. There was a cinder block wall. It was

(13:14):
three o'clock in the afternoon, broad daylight, and they came
within probably eight to ten feet of a very strange
creature that they initially thought was the devil. I mean,
it scared the but Jesus out of them. The girls
took off. They locked eyes with this thing briefly, it
took off, and then there was some level of communication.

(13:37):
I'm not sure how much a detail you want me
to go into, right now we can go into more
later and more and more stuff had come out about
military presence, blockade, people being threatened to captures by the
fire department, won by the military, and ultimately the Americans

(13:58):
were involved, and the whole event was pretty much over
by the twenty second, So it sort of started on
the thirteenth ended on the twenty second. There was a
lot of coverage in the media pretty much worldwide for
about a year year and a half. The military did
a fairly decent job of covering the whole incident up

(14:19):
and yeah, and here we are twenty six years later.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Wow. And when you talked to experts and stuff, what
is it with the sulfur emmonia smells that propulsion? Would
that be like something? Do they have any idea?

Speaker 2 (14:32):
You know, honestly, it's the first time I'd ever heard that,
so I don't know, But I just don't know. I did. Actually,
funny enough, had a military guy who was in the
intelligence and I gave him an early copy of the
film and he immediately said that he felt that that
was you know, like skunks, when they get threatened or agitated,

(14:56):
they put out that smell to kind of as a
deterrent anyway, he felt that that was what these creatures.
I have no idea if I.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Said, you know, Bobo does that too, Like if you
scare them real good.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, it's very effective.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
That's just crapping my pants out.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
I'm know you for decades and I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
All right, Yeah, that's what that is.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Bobo will be right back after these messages.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Men value many different things about their appearance. But if
you're a guy who really cares about your hair and
find out it's slowly going away or worse quickly, you
might be feeling discouraged when you look in the mirror.
And that's where Hymns comes in. Check out their personalized
hair loss solutions and you can start seeing your hair
go back in as little as three to six months.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Hymns provides you with convenient and quality access to a
range of hair loss treatments that work all from the
comfort of your couch or leisure chair or baby carriage,
whatever you're into.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
I guess.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Hymns makes treating hair loss simple with doctor trusted options
and clinically proven ingredients like finastro ride and monoxidel that
can regrow hair in as little as three to six months.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
This process is simple and one hundred percent online, so
there's no uncomfortable doctor visits.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Answer a few questions, and a medical provider will determine
if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your treatment
is sent directly to you for.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Free, No insurance is needed, and one low price cover
or everything from treatments to ongoing care.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Hyms has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers and they
can help you get your confidence back with visibly thicker
and fuller and squatchier hair. Nice searcher free online visits
today at hymns dot com slash beyond. That's hims dot

(16:52):
com slash beyond for your personalized hair loss treatment options.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Hymns dot com slash beyond.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
Results vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxidal
and finaster ride. Prescription products require an online consultation with
a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate.
Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Well, you know one of the things that you just
mentioned here that I have heard before, even in my
limited experience with the UFO world, is this sort of
tinfoil like material, I mean, am I correct? And remembering
that that was also President Roswell, Yes.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Jesse Marcel, who was the military intelligence officer on the
scene with the rancher mac Brasel, and there was one
other guy from the from the from the Roswell bas
with him. His name will come to me in a second,
but but yeah, Mack Marcel had talked about this light,

(17:53):
tinfoil looking material that you have it in your hands
and you can't really feel it so light, and then
you crumple it up and it regains its shape.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
So the same thing then virtually the same thing with
decades decades earlier.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's what struck me about that story. That's
that's what really Yeah, and then you know, I was
also thinking like about that alien, the fact that he
was able to walk and you know, walk around with
the curtes. I mean, so the scientists are right when
they look for like the the unicorn planets like the
Earth that have all the variables that produce their life,

(18:29):
like we know, so it must be a really similar
sized planet and all that for it to breed that
long and still be alive and also be like walk
in this gravity.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
The women that came within eight to ten feet of
this creature said that it was it was feeble, weak, scared,
vulnerable and wanted help, and it was clearly suffering. That's
what she said. What they all said.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
That's I felt so hot I felt when I heard that.
I was like, why could they have helped it?

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I know, I thought about, you know, I just watched
the movie Et with my son, and I couldn't help
but imagine a slightly different scenario where the girls, you know,
but you know one thing that it's unbelievable. Two hours later,
roughly two hours later, there were two and again in

(19:17):
the film, I flew a drone over all the areas
of the alleged crash site, the encounter, different UFO sightings
in the area, the alleged capture, the military blockade, and
I realized, and I realized this with fellow Brazilian UFO researchers,

(19:38):
researchers for the first time, that a lot of the
primary activity all took place within a four or five
block area and about two to two and a half
hours after the three girls claimed to have gotten within
eight to ten feet of this live being and I'll

(19:59):
describe the being to your audience. It was roughly four
feet tall, spindly legs and arms, big head, big, big
red eyes, three to four times the size of a
human eye, no hair, the brown, oily skin and they
say oily like a silicone, like a grease like. It
was really greasy and oily and feeble, the non threatening, scared, cowering.

(20:26):
And about two and a half hours after the girls
had this encounter, and believe me, the word of it
was spreading like wildfire all over across Virginia and Brazil.
There were two military officers, one by the name of
Eric Lopes and the other one is Marco Trees, and
they were on the lookout, from what the military told them,

(20:47):
for something incredibly unusual. The military didn't say there was
a UFO crash and there are live aliens walking around.
They just said be on the lookout for something very unusual.
What was about five thirty pm, January twentieth, nineteen ninety six,
and they were driving down just a couple blocks away
from where the girls that encountered this creature, and something

(21:09):
right across the front of their car, this little creature.
The driver locks up his brakes, Marco Trees. The passenger
leaps out and grabs this thing with his bare hands,
which put up very little of a fight at all,
and put it in the back seat, I believe, on
his lap, and I know this sounds so crazy, doesn't it.
And he takes it to the local hospital. He manages us.

(21:32):
First it was regional, then it was ultimately he manages
us hospital well. About a couple of weeks later, and
apparently he had this like greasy oil smelly stuff all
over his skin and he was using rubbing alcohol to
kind of rub it down and try to get this grease,
really smelly, greasy stuff off of him. And then he

(21:52):
had a little The officer Marco Trees, he had a
little cut. He was twenty three years old, perfectly healthy.
Had a cut on his right our left shoulder area
on his arm, and he got an infection. And in
a couple of weeks after he admitted himself to the hospital,
he was taken into intensive care. The doctor, through the

(22:16):
kitchen sink, at him every type of antibiotic under the sun,
and his body didn't react. His immune system just failed
that he died. We interviewed the sister of the military
officer who died. We interviewed our actually doctor Roger Lear,
which is a fellow American UFO researcher, interviewed the wife

(22:39):
of the deceased officer, which we feature in the film's
archive from two thousand and two, and we also made
an attempt to get for the first time in history,
the driver, Eric Lopes, and that's when we almost got
shot in the face.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
He was not very welcoming to you at all.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
He was not very welcoming to us at all. And
you know, people had kind of criticized us online for
our pro It's like, well, why did you just show
up at his house like that? It's like, well, every
other possible scenario had been completely exhausted, Like the family
of the deceased officer have not been able to get
a statement from Eric Lopes. None of the researchers, Brazilian researchers,

(23:16):
none of the people that I've been working with, have
been able to get a statement from him. Everyone's been
trying for twenty six years, and the only other option
left was either let it go or show up at
his house.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
Should have said that interpreter there by herself first, I
don't know, man, this guy wasn't budgeting for anybody, So
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, I don't know. But in any case, Yeah, it's
just a crazy, crazy story, you know. And you know,
then we interviewed goes by the name of Military X,
who was at as a military base, which is the
point of operations for the whole thing. And you know,
you're talking to a guy who allegedly drove of an

(24:00):
alien around, which is just I mean, I don't know,
have have you ever seen a movie with a guy
like because.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
I certainly haven't.

Speaker 5 (24:08):
Just the craziest story.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
And the thing is is that I've got a very
good friend of mine who's very supportive of my work,
and we've been friends since high school and he's always
has a die skeptical approach to these things. And he
watched moment of contact and he called me up. This

(24:32):
is just a month ago or something, and he said,
my god, James, I never thought i'd hear myself say this,
but I actually believe that this event happened. I was,
you know, tipped the hat. Well done, you know, And
I think that I think that there's enough compelling firsthand
testimony that can sway a jury.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah, when you combine that with your first film, not
your first one, with your last film, the phenomenon, it's
kind of like the two together in conjunction makes it
even more irrefutable.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, I think you almost have to watch the phenomenon
first because if you don't have any if you don't
have any knowledge background information on the phenomenon. When I
say the phenomena, I don't mean my film, but the
UFO phenomenon or UAP phenomenon in general, I think you're
going to find it very difficult to believe that a

(25:21):
UFO crashed and that live alien survived. I wouldn't expect
otherwise from uninformed public, and even an informed public, it's
a very unbelievable story. It's hard to imagine. I have
friends that found out that I was making an entire
documentary on this case. And James, are you sure you're

(25:43):
you're going to jeopardize your reputation? You are you really
willing to? You know, You've got a lot of great
context you're going to do this, And I mean a
lot of people were questioning what I was doing, and
I'm really kind of pushing the envelope at a little
bit with it. But I feel strongly. I felt, you
know that the eyewitness accounts are incredibly compelling.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Oh yeah, from what you said earlier in this interview here,
it sounds like, and correct me if I'm wrong, of course.
It sounds like when you first heard about it, whenever
that was I'm assuming back in ninety six or something,
ninety six, ninety seven, you probably went first win to this.
When you first heard it, you thought like, I don't
know about this one man. You kind of wrote it off.
It sounds like a lot of people in the UFO

(26:23):
world did the same. Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (26:25):
I wrote it off as quickly as you can say
how do duty? How fast can you say?

Speaker 3 (26:29):
How do duty? How did duty?

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (26:34):
I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
I don't even if I can, if I can.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Well, I remember hearing about I always thought it sounded good.
I remember seeing those interviews with those girls back in
ninety six whatever or was it ninety.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Six, right, ninety six? Yeah, yeah, but that was take
a lot of news in America. Doctor John Mack, that
Harvard psychiatrist was there investigating. A couple of years later
you had doctor Roger Lear. They're investigating, but they both
those characters have said it's passed and nothing was ever
done with their work. And so I actually feature clips

(27:06):
that was taken in two thousand and two from doctor
Roger Lear, thank god he went there. And also the
interviews that doctor John Mack, the Harvard psychiatrist did in
nineteen ninety six with a number of the witnesses that
we also feature. I mean, I think about, like doctor
John Mack, how fortunate he was to have lived through
some of the most crazy UFO instances in modern history.

(27:32):
He got to experience the fiftieth anniversary for the Roswell case.
That was pretty exciting because there were a number of
people at that point still alive. He got the ninety
seven massive flyover March thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven of the
UFOs across the state of Arizona, commonly referred to as
the Phoenix Lights, though the witnesses would get crossed if

(27:53):
you call it the Phoenix Lights, it's the massive UFO flyover.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
You know, you had.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
The ninety landing in Ruei, Zimbabwe at the school than
you had ninety six UFO crash in Virginia. I mean,
the nineties were fast, I mean unbelievable, right, Oh yeah,
we had some of the best cases.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
So if you initially wrote it off, if you initially
kind of said, how do you do do this?

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Man?

Speaker 1 (28:19):
What was it that changed your mind and sort of
drawing you back in slowly and eventually culminating in the documentary.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
So about eleven years after I had written it off,
faster than you can say, how do duty? I was
going to I was invited to Brazil to give a
presentation on a film that I did called I Know
What I Saw, which is basically a documentary about this
National Press Club event I did with Leslie Kine, who
was a contributing author to the New York Times article

(28:50):
that broke the story of that secret Pentagon UFO program
and the end of twenty seventeen a tip advanced Aerospace
Threat identification program. And Leslie and I did this event
in the National Press Club where we flew in fourteen
fifteen people from seven countries, most of them military, some

(29:10):
NFA officials, pilots, things of that nature. And then I
made a movie on it call that I Know What
I Saw. And I was invited to give a presentation
in a place called Bedouibi in the south of Brazil
of sal Palo And about you know my participation in
my film, and when I was about to jump on

(29:33):
the plane to fly to Brazil for the first time,
it was like end of twenty ten or early twenty eleven,
I get a phone call from a guy named Jeff Saganski,
who I've only recently been revealing this and he's been
very high up on the food chain in the entertainment industry.
And he's like, oh, you know, he's been very influential
behind the scenes, helping me get distribution, blah blah blah,

(29:56):
and he's super into UFOs and he goes, oh, you're
going to You're going to Virginia James. I said, yeah,
he goes, he goes, you got to look into the Virginia.
I'm sorry, you're going to Brazil. You gotta look at
the Virginia UFO incident. I was like, oh God, not
this again. You mean the one with the UFO crashes
and the live I was like, sure, Jeff, I'll look
into that for you. And I hung the phone up
with absolutely zero intention of looking into it, because I

(30:19):
just I just there's no way, in my opinion that
something like that could happen in the whole world not
know about it. I mean, I just there's no way
I'm not going to waste my time. My dad used
to always tell me, it's like, you know, time is
the one thing you don't get back in life. So
the last thing I'm gonna do is waste any time
on something that's you know, just complete nonsense rubbish.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 5 (30:45):
After these messages.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I got to Brazil, and I at the conference, I
met a couple of witnesses and a couple of researchers
who started to like, you know, shed some light on
this case. And I guess i'd have to say that
that kind of didn't pique my interest, but it certainly
perked my ears. And then I've been there four times
a month, roughly a month each time. And then I've

(31:17):
worked with the Brazilian researchers and for you know, quite
some time, and we were going to try and squeeze
this story into the phenomenon. In fact, I spent months
and months and months editing a nice little segment, but
then I realized it was such a complex story. There
was so many moving parts, and I just deleted that
entire section, and the Phenomenon came out without that Virginia

(31:39):
incident in it at all. And of course my Brazilian
counterparts were devastated when when the phenomenon came. Of course
they liked the phenomenon and they're like, what happened to Virginia?
We worked so hard, you know, I was like, sorry, guys,
just there wasn't room. I'll tell you what, why don't
we dedicate a whole film to this? And so in
the back of my mind it was kind of unsettled business,

(32:01):
And so as soon as I finished the Phenomenon, I
went right to work with with this one.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Now that you've had a chance, and you've you've spoken
a lot of witnesses, you've been to the site, you've
been in all this amazing research on it, is it
safe to say that now you are completely satisfied that
this is a series of true events that actually.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Happened one hundred and fifty percent fantastic.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
Did you not watch the movie Cliff?

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Of course I did. I want to know his take
on it first.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
I did.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
One of the things that I didn't put in the movie.
That's my little dirty secret is that in two thousand
and thirteen, and it might have been twenty fourteen. I'm sorry,
I'm trying to remember. But I met with it's a
Brigadier Brazilian Air Force, Jose Carlos Pereira, and he agreed
to go on camera to talk about UFOs in Brazil.

(32:52):
And there are a lot of fascinating cases. I did
a little snapshot history in this film. So this Brigadier
Air Force, Brazilian Air Force, Josie Carlos Pereira, was willing
to talk about UFOs, the existence of UFOs, the reality
of UFOs in Brazil. However, he said that if we
asked him any questions about Virginia, he would get up

(33:14):
and leave. So I was like, okay, well that's a
little odd. So we did the interview, and you know,
I didn't want him to get up and leave, so
I didn't bring up Virginia. And when the interview ended,
myself and my buddy co producer Marco Layel, we walked
up to Josie Carlos Perera and I have photographs of

(33:34):
all this meeting and the video of the interview, not
what I'm about to share with your audience, and I
looked him in the eyes with the translator, and I said,
I swear on my life there are no recording devices here.
This is just for us wanting to know. Please, I

(33:55):
beg you, I'm pleading with you. What happened in Virginia?
What happened in Virginia? Did it happen? And this kind
of things. And Marco was doing the same thing, and
he was sort of packing himself up, and he was
getting ready. He had a driver waiting for him, and
he didn't say anything. We were begging and pleating. My
im was just about on my hands and knees, like,
you know, kissing this guy's feet. I mean, I was
just really I just wanted to know, you know. And

(34:18):
we get back. We walked with him back to his driver.
He gets in the car in the back seat. He
leaves the door open. The driver's ready to take him away,
and he looks at both Marco and myself and he said,
it happened, closed the door, and off he went. And

(34:39):
so I just had a level of confirmation on this
incident very early on in my investigations that really kind
of kept kept me going, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Do you think it was because do you think it's
because the US came in and then that's what the
big like the US later on them. So I was like,
this not better knocking because they were open about other cases.
Is it because of the US and volunteer that's why
they're so strict about this one.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
I think it's one thing to have something unidentified in
the air and something entirely different to have beans on
the ground. But twofold one, the mother of the deceased officer,
his name was Marco Cherise Marco treads. She had a
visit from the Brazilian authorities and they, according to his sister,

(35:30):
told her told the mother of the deceased military officer
who allegedly captured this creature and then died, that it
was all true, but they couldn't release this information to
the general public for fear of society would collapse. Now
that's what she was told in nineteen ninety six. Do
I believe that, I don't. Necessarily, I can't say one

(35:52):
or the other. I don't think so. But that's one aspect.
The other aspect is it would reveal the American's involvement,
and I'm sure that the Americans did not want that
because all the Brazilian military witnesses that we spoke to,
and we spoke to a lot they all said that
the Americans came in, including the flight control radar operator

(36:14):
confirmed that it is known. It was known that a
United States Air Force plane flew in to a place
called Campenis s P six. Campenis Is where a military base,
and that's where all the eyewitnesses. Military operations claimed that
the beans ended up. Military plane flew in on the

(36:37):
twenty second of January. It landed to helicopters, flew from
there to the town of Virginias, Virginia, and then from
Virginia back to Campenis, and then Campenis back to the
United States. But we don't know and something was loaded
on the plane. But we don't know what was loaded
on the plane, and we don't know where that plane
went once it left Brazil, but.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
We can speculate as probably the being whatever they are.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, well that's what that's that's certainly what they told us.
I mean, the military guys that we talked to told
us that they didn't have the facilities to accommodate that
level off. They were in over their heads and the
Americans came in and kind of took over do.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
You think about the right Patterson.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
I simply have absolutely no idea. I'm going to look
into it, but right now I don't have any idea.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Well, here's a question that you also don't know the
answer for, because no one does. This woman said that
it would make society collapse or whatever if this was
known somehow, which I think is nonsense.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Of course she didn't say. She said that the military
told her mother.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
That I see my mistake, my mistake. But nonetheless, what
realistically speaking, like going ahead, you know twenty years if
such a thing did become public and it was known.
You're way deeper in this than I am, So like,
what are your thoughts on the consequences of this being
known and real to everybody, because it's a fact that

(37:57):
is accepted that like beings were walking around on the planet. Yeah,
they're not, they're here. Those things in the sky might
be related to my not, but those things are around
sometimes they're real. This was really really real.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, I know. And I have to differentiate my own
personal views from what I anticipate how this would be
received in the general public. And I didn't believe it
when I was investigating UFOs and making documentaries on UFOs
in the late nineties, I thought it was too out there,

(38:31):
too unbelievable. Of course I do now after many, many
years of research, so I think it would potentially be
quite disruptive or jostling to the vast majority of citizens
of the planet. I just think that because they're so
ill prepared for it, I think it would really bring

(38:54):
into question the nature of reality. I just do. I
can kind of see it. I don't agree with it,
I really don't, because I wouldn't be doing what I'd
do if I didn't. I don't agree with the secrecy,
but I can't deny that there's a part of me
that sees why they do it. Perhaps initially back in

(39:15):
the forties they were thinking, you know, let's get a
handle on what's going on before because initially, when Roswell happened,
they announced it to the world. I mean, the five
and Night Bomb Squadron admitted to the world that they're
the ones that made the announcement recover we recovered a
flying disc not of this world. And of course they
recanted and they went backwards. But the vast majority of

(39:36):
people that were involved with the cover up later came
clean on camera. But I think that they probably thought,
you know, let's get a handle on what this is.
You know, we're going to open up the floodgates to
all these inquiries and we're not going to be able
to provide answers to the general public. And I think
they just never quite got a handle on what was
going on.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
You know, I don't know, man, I think reality needs
a good questioning every once in a while.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Hey, look, I'm not sitting there saying I believe it's justified.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Oh no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
I might say that. I've been thinking that more and
more it could be justified.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I don't know. I mean, I do what I do
because I feel like people are entitled to this information,
whether even if it's a little scary, like if they
were here to do his harm. I think we would
have known that a long time ago. I mean, I mean,
you know, and I don't know to what level the
military knows. I'm told that there was some level of
communication with one of the beings that was alive. I'm told,

(40:30):
but I have not spoken directly with that doctor who
claimed in Roger Lear's book that in Roger Lear's book
was pretty much accurate to piction A transcription of the
of the tapes that interviewed that he did. However, there
was a couple of interviews that he did that was
someone off the record and was not on camera where
he talked about a level of communication between the captured

(40:53):
being and some Brazilian folks.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Did he mention the mode of communication because it could
well telepathic? Okay, that's what I wanted to know.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, that's what he said. But again I don't have
it's third party.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
So stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
When you look back, who gave very similar like because
so many people claim to have his et encounters and
it's usually a gray or a lizard man whatever, how
many people described exactly really close to what you guys
reported in Virginia.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
I've never heard it. I have never heard it. Dark
skin and oily, really oily, dark skin, no hair, and
the oil.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
And I think the oil is obviously what killed the guy.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
I don't know. I just don't know. It could have
been some bacteria on there that got in him. But
he had a cut. I know that he had a
cut on his arm and it was it was that
everybody assumed that it was. When he captured this thing,
he got a little nick on his arm that broke
the skin.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
That goo had the same smell of ammonia and sulfur
as the crash site.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Did you did you have a chance to track down
or did you in the effort in tracking down the
owners of the land to interview them about it?

Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yeah? I did.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
I tried that for some time, and I got the
farm hand on camera talking about the they that the
neighbors had all reported the impact of something crashing on
the property and that the owner, who wasn't in Brazil
when I was there twice, had had told that the

(42:36):
ranch hand that that something that crashed there and that
the military presence was there.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
So further confirmation, but no more real information necessarily.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
No more real information. Yeah, but military acts at the
end confirmed that that everything started at my Olini farm
and that's where Carlos Salza saw the UFO actually impact
the ground. But you know, the Americans involved, So I
just I would love I would love it if this
film encouraged some American authorities to come forward. And because

(43:09):
the case goes cold once that plane left Brazil, we
know nothing. I'm not going to give up, you know. Obviously,
I'm going to keep investigating this case further, no question
about that. But I'll make whatever revelations are found available
to everybody. But as it stands right now, I don't
know what happened once that plane took off and left Brazil.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Have you got any pushback at all on this movie,
like from any kind of known or unknown government entities
or anything like that. No.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
When I was in Brazil, we got spooked a couple
of times, and it was actually the most spooked I've
ever been on any production I've ever done.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
And that was well first we got.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
When we went to Eric Lope's house. He threatened on
a number of occasions to start spraying bullets shoot us
in the face. These military intelligence we were either had
just met with military acts and were about to meet
with some other military personnel. And the military base as

(44:13):
I was calling people that we had just either met
with or that we were about to meet with, and
we knew this because we were in touch with the
people that we'd either just met or we were about
to meet with, and the military base was asking questions
like hey, so and so, Hey you still living at
this address? Yeah, how's the family doing? Hey, you didn't

(44:34):
buy any chance hear from there's an American film crew
they're here that are making a documentary on the junior case.
Do they reach out to you? You heard from them
at all?

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Well?

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Anyway, really glad that your family's doing well. I'm happy
to hear that you're still living over such and such address.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
And that's how they did it.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
And so the people that we either had just met
with that we were about to meet with, said, steer
clear of us, don't even call us, don't come near
us for six months. So we didn't And that was spooky.
That was spooky. We didn't get a call.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
Was that the family that recorded that ORB going through
the streets? No?

Speaker 1 (45:11):
No, oh, yeah, that's a whole other thing. What's up
with that?

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, it's amazing cases in Brazil. I mean, I did
a little snapshot history of I mean, look at that.
It's one of the best videos I've ever seen of
a disc at night. It's also featured I think it
was like nineteen ninety eight, ninety seven, ninety eight. Anyway,
it's all in the it's all in the movie.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
You ever think they're doing it as she submerged ified beagles.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
You know, right now, I'm kind of leaning in the
direction of I want to find out where this evidence is.
And it's not just this case. When I met with
former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reeves, one of the people
that launched that secretive UFO Pentagon program, it started off
as like a awsap and then it ultimately ended up

(45:58):
as a tip that revealed on the front page of
the New York Times. But in any case, former Senator
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said to me that what's
been released is only the tip of the iceberg. So
we know, I know through all the military people that
I've met with, and the evidence that I've heard has

(46:18):
been swept off to some dungeon in the Pentagon and
then coupled with this recent film on this alleged crash
with bodies and debris, this stuff goes somewhere, and I'd
like to find out where that is. And I'd also
like to find out who has the authority to release it.
And right now, I don't even think it's the I

(46:40):
don't even think it's the President. I just don't. Yeah,
it's it's really baffling to me.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, to learn a little bit more about the power
structure in our own government, about how those decisions are
made and whatnot, to be a fascinating topic for investigation,
because nobody knows that stuff well.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Because I interviewed Gerald Ford and he talked talked about
inquiries that he had made both as a congressman. He
didn't want to talk much about when he was when
he was president. He wasn't happy with the answers they
were getting. I interviewed Jimmy Carter at a book signing.

(47:19):
I did it kind of like covertly, but we got
him on camera talking about the UFO that he's seen
and then he did look into it during his presidency,
and he was not happy with the answers he was getting,
and he'd seen the UFO. Then I interviewed people around
the circle of the Clinton administration, Podesta, and they were
looking into the Roswell case and Podesta and and and co.

(47:44):
I also interviewed the guy that wrote the book called
Friends in High Places, web Hubble, I think Webster Hubble.
And he wrote in his book that when the first
day or two of joining the Clinton administration, that president
and said to him, I want to find out who
killed JFK and are UFO is real? And he said

(48:05):
that they had launched an investigation, and that they even
involved the Secretary of the Air Force, Sheila Widnall, and
that they were not happy with the answers that the
administration was getting. In other words, the President of the
United States was getting the run around. So that leads
you to the inescapable question of, well, if the President

(48:26):
of the United States doesn't have the authority to gain
access to who does.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Well, that's a great question, because presidents come and go.
You know, you don't like this one, the next one's
coming soon, don't worry about it. But the infrastructure of
the government is far more permanent in a lot of ways.
So there has to be some sort of other chain
of command, I guess for these kinds of things, and
probably a wide variety of other kinds of things that

(48:55):
we aren't even aware of or we can only speculate about.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
I kind of got the impression that probably the last
few presidents that maybe had access to this was maybe Truman, Eisenhower,
Eisenhower exactly Apparently Eisenhower. This is actually very very credible
testimony which I just i'd heard Prior to this, there
was that famous actor who apparently Eisenhower took out to

(49:25):
a military base in Florida, and I think it was
the early seventies.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
Yeah, Jackie's Nixon.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Nixon, thank you very much. So I had the impression
that Nixon was the last person really kind of fed
into the phenomenon, and I was not sure what quite
what to believe with that whole Nixon story and Jackie Gleeson.
But I mentioned this name earlier, but this guy, Jeff

(49:55):
Sagansky who's been a big proponent of mine, kind of
behind the scenes because he's got this very mainstream reputation
with you know, and he invested very large amounts of
money in the entertainment industry. But in any case, I
asked him one time. I was like, you know, Jeff,
you've done so many wonderful things for me in the past,
and you've never wanted any credit, You've never wanted any compensation.

(50:16):
Why do you do this? And he's like, he's like,
you know, James, I worked on such and such a
film with Jackie Gleason back in whatever year it was,
and Jackie pulled me aside and he said, Jeff, don't
ever listen to it. Anyone ever tells you about UFOs,
they were one hundred and ten reel. I've had definitive confirmation.

(50:39):
But he didn't say that Nixon drove me out to
a military base and showed me these you know, creatures
or whatever. He didn't say that, but he went very,
very very far out and said, I know for a
fact these things are real. Don't ever believe otherwise. It's
it's absolutely what's what's happening. And then since then, I

(50:59):
think I put out something on a podcast I did
in Florida. It was called a Concrete Podcast, And on
that podcast, I said, Hey, if anyone's got any further
information on this Jackie Gleeson story, And this guy said,
my mother worked for Jackie Jackie Gleeson, and she basically
confirmed to her son exactly what was was told, what

(51:24):
that that was out there, and that is that Jackie
Gleeson was indeed taken by Nixon out to some military base.
You could look it up online, but it was in
Florida and he was shown bodies and crash debris from Roswell.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Had you heard another people say that that's what their
storms always here? Like a right Patterson and then I
forget the other one.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Yeah, no, I'd always I know, right, Patterson is the
go to, Right, It's like, you know Barry Goldwater talking
to General Curtis LeMay On, you know, the the infamous
Blue Room, but at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, which
would make sense that was where Project Blue Book and
all that stuff was out of. But but no, according
to this took place in Florida.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
Have you heard the people say, like, when you hear
stories of recovered craft or bodies, have you ever anyone
they ever mentioned a Florida based before this one?

Speaker 2 (52:11):
No? I have not, No, but I heard very credible
accounts from prominent scientists that would be in a position
to know that the bodies are now in California of
Roswell or this event from Roswell.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Roswell, Okay.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
And it was funny actually, because I asked this question
in the past that someone I felt that would probably know,
and it was like, you know, no response kind of laughed.
And then one night we're at dinner and just let
it out like, oh, the bodies are in And then
I brought it up like a year later, and it
was like, oh, no, I didn't say that. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
you did say that. I heard you say it loud

(52:46):
and clear. It was like, you know, it just a
moment that kind of slipped up. But yeah, I was
told from someone definitely in a position to know that
the bodies from Roswell are in California.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Different critters in the ninety six incident, different looking things.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Very much so, yeah, very much so. But still big eyes,
big head, spindly arms and legs, you know, feeble, not muscular, weak,
almost like they're designed not to operate at the level
of gravity the here on Earth, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
That's what I was wondering to dot so because that
would give you some idea the composition of their planet
and size.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
I guess I just wouldn't have a damn clue, Guys,
I just I wouldn't. I couldn't even begin to speculate.
But but other than if they're weak and spindily, you know,
with the spindley arms and legs, that would you know,
bigger eyes, big big heads, big eyes. You know, God,
I don't know, man, it's just really weird, big universe is.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
While you were talking, I was thinking about this this
of course they'd be so different and everything and and
the power structure might say, oh, society would collapse if
people knew about that. Complete hogwash man. To me, that's comforting.
It's comforting because if Homo sapiens are the are the
pinnacle of intelligence in the universe, something's gone sideways.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Man.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
You know, the universe is way older than that. We
can do better than us, We can do way better
than us. Slick at us, make it would make me
sleep better at night, knowing that we're just not there yet.
We haven't graduated to the galactic University and they're just
waiting for us to mature a bit.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Well, that's funny you should say that, because if you
watch Moment of Contact. I always put little gems in
the credits because credits are kind of boring otherwise, and
I think people should look at the credits. So I've
sprinkled some credits, and then I sprinkle some little juicy
tidbits of stuff that didn't quite make it into the movie.
So I do that for like five or ten minutes,

(54:43):
and if you watch through the credits, a moment of Contact,
that very general that I talked about earlier, that revealed
that that Virginia did happen he's in the he's in
the credits at the end, Josie Carlos Perretto. You can
see him in his uniform, and he's that's the big question,
why don't they contact us? Why don't they make overt contact?

(55:05):
And then he said, we're such a violent species, with
such a violent race. We take a very hostile approach
towards anything unknown in our airspace. So it's kind of
like shoot first, ask questions later.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
We'll be right back after these messages.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
I interviewed a general from Tehran by the name Parvis Jafari.
Was a very compelling, incredible UFO encounter in nineteen seventy
six over table.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
He was in the phenomenon.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
He was in the phenomenon.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
He was also and I know what I saw, And
he said to me, he shot at he tried to
shoot out a UFO was very incredible cat and mouse
thing over Tehran in nineteen seventies. I think he was
in an F four Phantom jet and he said that
his control panel froze up and he started to kind
of almost fall out of the sky and he was

(56:14):
moments away from injecting in his plane when everything came
back to life, and all these years later, his biggest
regret was why he didn't try to make peaceful contact?
Why did he try to shoot? This thing was not
trying to harm him, threaten him, and yet he tried
to shoot.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
It says something about us.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
I think, all, he's a human.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Yeah, but he said that was his biggest regret. He
should have tried to make peaceful contact. It was a
fascinating it's funny. It was a segment of the interview
that I did in two thousand and seven that's in
I know what I saw. Sorry, his story is in
I know what I saw. But that aspect of his
regret of contemplating why did I take an aggressive posture

(56:57):
at this unknown as opposed to try to make peaceful contact?
That section of the interview I included in the phenomenon.
I just I don't know. For some reason, I just
didn't see the relevance of it back in two thousand
and seven, but today I even more so. Why not?
You know, if it's something that's you know, look at
we can't even get along with each other on this

(57:18):
planet right now, So what are we going to do
with an alien race? Do you know what I mean?
And I've said this before on another podcasts, and I'll
say it again, but I've always felt that this story,
this reality, would have a very unifying effect on humanity
and that we would finally see ourselves for who we

(57:40):
really are. And that's one race on one species, one planet.
Good luck with that, I know, but I've really felt
that it would have that kind of it would force
people to see ourselves for who we really are.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Yeah, I think that is a good that that would
come from this because the powers that be that say
that society will collapse, like, no, it's their society, it's
their power structure. We're going to recognize that their idea
of their own authority is a joke, and that we have,
you know, we have governance over ourselves and our own
minds and thoughts and bodies, et cetera. And I think
that's the danger from from the power structure of the

(58:14):
military and governments. And as soon as the cats out
of the bag were and realized, oh what you've been
telling this all along, that's complete, you know, garbage, and
you know, of course we need some sort of rules
and regulations in society in general, but as far as
the society will collapse, no, the vision of them being
authority will collapse, and that's what that's what they fear.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Yeah, yeah, no, no question. Look, I love that line
in Pink Floyd. Together we stand divided, we fall, because
you know, you know, it seems like there's like such
an effort, particularly you know, the last decade or so,
to really divide everybody, and I don't want any part

(58:57):
of it.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
I just can't.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
The whole politics of of that just bothers me profoundly.
I feel like we're all we're all human beings. Man,
we need to get along. If we differ on certain policies.
Who cares? Like, I don't hate you, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 1 (59:10):
And you shouldn't hate me of course, yeah, buy into
the most are the ones most under the spell by them?

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Yeah, I just don't. I don't buy into that. And anyway,
so I've always felt that this, this this reality would
have just forced us to look at the bigger picture.
You know. I think we're just part of a much
that more vast universe. It's clearly teeming with life, and
we're just one.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
Part of that. Hey, what's the what when you talk
to these experts, like the astronomers and stuff, what do
I think is the most likely they have? Do they
have an idea which planet is the most likely these
things are coming from? Or is there multiple planets like
you've heard theories on or is just no one knows?

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Nobody knows. I mean Jacques Vallet, the intellectual heavyweight on
the world on this, and I worked with him for
quite some time on the phenomenon, and we're good friends,
and I've picked his brains countless times, and he's been
involved with like, you know, think tanks and nids with
what's his name, Bigelow. He thinks it's kind of like
a but again, this is speculation, right, but it's informed

(01:00:11):
speculation that it's like interdimensional kind of thing, like kind
of like an omnipresent intelligence that has the ability to
manifest itself in a multitude of ways. It's both nuts
and bolts, but it's also psychic. That's what he thinks.
A large but look, it's a very big universe, and

(01:00:32):
it could be all of the above. It could be
time travelers, it could be interplanetary, it could be interdimensional.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Maybe there's not such a fine line between are such
a solid line between all those things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Either, Yeah, maybe not, that's exactly right. I mean no,
it's like, hey, you know, and it's funny because and
you guys, maybe you guys feel the same way. I
don't know. After all these years and all these movies,
I kept thinking that I would have an answer, like
I'll know, finally, I'll know. Maybe there's just periodic you know,
visitation from other planets or you know, zeta reticulate or whatever,

(01:01:06):
and for whatever reason, the governments tend to cover this
stuff up. But I'm coming to the realization then I'm
probably just not gonna know, which kind of sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
It's kind about the journey though, as long as you're
enjoying the journey. Yeah, it's got to be about the journey.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
I'm totally enjoying the journey. But still I kind of
would like to have more answers than I have. What
about you guys with Bigfoot? I mean, do you guys
have answers?

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
No? Yeah, I think I think we're gonna we have.
You need like government, let's say land and just go
in front of the whole world, like you need top
high level military whatever, like the highest level of the
highest level if we're going to get the answers, if
they even have them, whereas us, like some hunter could
solve it, or a truck driver runs one over and

(01:01:50):
then there's our body, you know, I mean, like ours
is more solvable.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
I think, Well, do you feel that that bigfoot could
be interdimensional?

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Yeah, clip does, and I think it's a distinct possibility.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Now I don't think so at all.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Now, oh, you don't think so at all, because so
the people that some of the people that I've talked
to that have had encounters say it was almost like superhuman.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Yeah, well, I mean they are, they're they're they're weird,
I'll tell you that. But I but looking at what
they are looking at, looking at their physical description alone,
there's nothing at all there that can't be found in
other great apes, including humans. Nothing at all. Their anatomy
is one hundred percent consistent with what we know about
non human primates as well as human ancestors. Everything from

(01:02:35):
the flexibility in the mid part of the foot of
the shoulders for braciation, everything about them screams I evolved
here that now, mind you, I'm super interested in in
in other possible intelligences. I'm really interested in that sort
of thing. I enjoy those fringe physics articles I get

(01:02:56):
to read and like when they start getting speculative and
things like Scientific American and whatever else. Like perhaps that
consciousness didn't arise out of matter. Perhaps matter arose out
of consciousness, like like turning things on their head and
just looking at possibilities. Rupert Sheldrake. I enjoy reading him.
I don't agree with everything he says, but I think
it's fascinating. There's a bit it's a big universe, as

(01:03:17):
you just said, And it's entirely possible that whatever is
out there who wants to tap us and say hello
for whatever reasons, might be perfectly happy with us thinking
that they're bigfoots because at least it doesn't scare us.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
As a witness I spoke to one said it scares
some people.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Are they generally non aggressive? Because that encountered that guy
had in Mississippi, that hunter up in a tree. He
sounded pretty spooked.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Yeah, but nothing happened. It could have got him and
it didn't. They're the masters, They're the masters of intimidation.
They they they've got the human psyche down pat like
they know what to do to flush us out of
his own m I.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Mean, how often are they physically aggressive? Because it wouldn't
take much to take us out, right, I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Oh they could. They could take us out, no problem, dude,
they're so The thing is they're so fast and so strong.
That's the other thing that's weird is like how people
describe it as being like cartoon fast.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Like just my cousins had it looked like a ninja
who was so fast it ran across the road in
front of him. He goes, I've never seen anything run
so fast in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Two of them were described to me once as if
you pull a bungee cord until there is no more
pull left and let it go. That's how fast these two,
you know, seven foot tall things ran up a hillside.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
But one thing, one thing I noticed with the UFO
things is the sulfur emmonia smell is often associated with
the Sasquatches, especially when there's paranormal people report paranormal things
with the big foots. That sulfur emmonia smells pretty often reported.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Really, I've never heard that before.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
It's great, yeah, wow, And.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
I remember I have a detailed account of Jesse Marcel,
who is an intelligent at the Roswell Military Base in
nineteen forty seven, and he was one of the first
officers on the scene of the crash of the debris field.
And he didn't, you know, gave great detail about the
metal and the little hyperoglyphics and that thing, but didn't

(01:05:14):
say a word about it smelling like that. And I
thought that was a fairly relevant aspect if it. If
it was the case, I don't know how he would have.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Left it out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Are there other smells commonly associated with UFO encounters or
HE encounters, Not that I've heard.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
But that doesn't mean anything, you know. I'm very knowledgeable
on the cases that I have personally investigated, and I've
been around the world investigating cases, but there are thousands
of cases that I don't know about, so or I
know little about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
But I think if it was if it was like
a motif like it is in Sasquatch reports, for example,
you would have picked that up certainly, No, for.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Sure, no question about Yeah, no question, but I haven't and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Of course in Bigfoot, but it is overblown to only
ten to fifteen percent of citing reports have any sort
of smell associated with.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
Them, and how often this is the creature aggressive?

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Very they might act aggressive. I would guess maybe twenty
percent of the time, maybe maybe fifteen almost hardly ever,
they usually turn around and walk away. That's like ninety
percent of Yeah. Yeah, not a lot going on there.
But you know, as I say, often we don't hear
from the people who didn't survive.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
That's a good point.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
Well, it's like it's like white sharks, dude. There they're
all like the more data they get to realize how
much they're right with the surfers, and then you hear
about oh, great whites. So there's like this guy got attacked,
and it's it's so rare for how much people are
around them and how many there are, it's extremely rare.
I thinues it's the same kind of scenario.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
You know, it's really funny, you guys. I was on
a bus in Thailand and I was going from a
place called Krabi, which is to the south to the north.
And I'm on the bus and it's like a long
overnight bus ride and I heard the radio on and

(01:07:09):
it's the BBC. I hear this another world news shark
attack in northern California in a small town called Ballinas.
I said, what the what that's where I live populated
in two thousand. Hey, you gotta be kidding me. Possibly
a smart a shark attack. Just recently, after all these years,

(01:07:32):
finally got to ask the guy. We grew up together.
He's a little bit younger than me, and I finally,
you know, I approached him. He just burnt out, he
didn't want to talk about it anymore. But I approached
him at a barbecue. He was actually running the barbecue
at the time, and I was like, I'm so sorry.
I asked his buddy, I know you've been through this
a million times, but my god, can you just tell
me this one, like as an investigative journalist, guy, could

(01:07:52):
you just tell you know? And he's like, ah, okay,
I'll tell you. And he said that he was on
a longboard and he was out further than the rest
of the crew on shorter boards, and he was kind
of laughing to himself, like, ah, I'm gonna get all
the waves, like I'm on this longboard and he's out there,
and all of a sudden, the here's just like cutting sound.
He said, it sounded like a like a like a

(01:08:14):
knife or something like like cutting through the water and
he realized it was a dorsal fin and this thing
was coming at him like a locomotive. He's like, he said,
it hit him and knocked him, like right before it
got to him. It like hit him from underneath and
knocked him straight up in the air, like ten fifteen
feet up in the air, and he landed. He said,
he was falling. Okay, imagine this. He was falling into

(01:08:38):
the open mouth of a great white shark. And he
landed in the mouth of this great white shark, which
proceeded to clamp down on him. Now he's cut from
above the knees all the way across, big circular U
shaped you know, all across the chest, arms, lacerations everywhere.
He's like, James, I had nothing to lose, man. I

(01:08:59):
was punching this thing in the eyeball, the nose, poking
its eyes out like whatever I had, He goes, I
was gonna be his next meal, like I had none
to lose. He was fighting this thing off and then
it finally released him. He's bleeding everywhere, and the three
other people that were on shorter boards were halfway to
shore already, but they just left this guy for dead.

(01:09:19):
And then they realized, oh my god, we got to
go back. We can't leave him out there to die.
We have to go. And then they agreed, like, not
one of us can go back, not to we all three,
we need to go back. So they all three paddled
back out to save this guy, and then the shark
came back for seconds. So he was fighting the shark again,
and he said he was just getting lacerations on his arms,

(01:09:39):
and his hands and fingers were all shreded to pieces.
He's razor sharp teeth, but he's punching the thing anyway.
He's bleeding everywhere, and they get him back to shore.
The shark eventually leaves. They get him back to shore,
his boards cutting half his body's lacerations everywhere. He's bleeding out,
and they get a helicopter of kim Land. But he survives,
you know, and he's again now. But isn't that crazy.

(01:10:02):
I was like traveling on a bus from Crabby to
Bangkok when I heard about this shark attack in my town.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Yeah, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
and Bobo. Will be right back.

Speaker 5 (01:10:15):
After these messages, we do a little story time.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
I just interviewed my buddy that had a pretty gnarly
shark attack out here, like it came back out on
the second time. It's going to be like a little
for the Patreon customers supporters did a little interview with
him about getting what it's like to be in the
mouth of a manager.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
You guys, would be so terrifying just to think about,
like there's a creature that's one hundred thousand times stronger
than you and you can't stop it, you can't really
fight back, and you're going to become a meal. It's
that just would be that to me, would just be
absolutely terrifying, Like this monster that wants to eat you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
What everyone says is the worst part. This is when
it is when it lets go of you finally and
you're waiting for it to come back.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
That's the god, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Yeah, that's part of their strategy, isn't it. They bite
you and then they let you bleed out so you
don't fight back, and then they come in you munch on.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
You, coming to finish you off. Well, when I was
in Australia, I was investigating for the phenomenon. I was
investigating this landing case that happened in nineteen sixty six
at a school called Westall Primary School just outside Melbourne.
And fascinating case because there were like three hundred and
sixty five people out witnessing this UFO flying darting around

(01:11:35):
in the sky just above the school grounds. I mean,
every student, every teacher, everybody's outside broad daylight about ten
thirty in the morning, and then they watched this UFO
land and a number of students jumped the fence and
went over to the to the forest area where this
UFO landed. Fascinating case. Anyway, it's in the movie The Phenomenon.
But I was over there investigating and I was like, well,

(01:11:56):
I'm going to work for a couple of weeks and
then I'm going to go up to the Daintree Rainforest
and check out the Great Barrier Reef. And you know,
I've always wanted to go to Australia, and I tho'd
be a really good time to do that. So I
worked for like three straight weeks and then I took
a couple of days off and went to the Dantree
Rainforest and Great Barrier Reef and everywhere I would see
these signs posted danger, Danger, look out. You know, these crocodiles.

(01:12:20):
I said to my partner Rebecca. I was like, man,
I think these d I think these crocodiles are a
lot more dangerous than they're leading up. I mean, they're
seeing these danger signs and people are telling you don't
walk on the beach at night, you'll be careful going
into these watering holes. And so anyway, long story short,
I find out from the locals because I ask a
lot of questions because you know, it's what I do,
and the locals are like, oh yeah, these crocodiles they

(01:12:43):
you know, it's not like a great white shark with
all just like you know, take a nibble and realize
that you're not a seal. They actually actively and willingly
and aggressively hunt human beings. They will they will stalk you.
If you have a particular area that you go down to,
like a fishing hole, they'll wait for you at that
fishing hole and at the right moment they'll leap up

(01:13:05):
and get you on a dock. Then they take you underwater,
swirl you around till you drown, let your carcass decay
for a few days, and then come back and eat you.
And that's how they roll.

Speaker 5 (01:13:18):
That's how it's pretty bad ass.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
You gotta admit that's pretty bad ass.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Oh my gosh, it's terrifying because they're actively hunting you.
They want to eat you.

Speaker 5 (01:13:28):
Oh, they're so big man.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Bobo and I went to a zoo and we filmed
in Australia when we had a day off, and we
saw giant crocodile that was there And how long was
bobes You might remember twenty feet.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
It was like nineteen feet or something.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Yeah, but the thing had to be if I was
standing next to it had to be three and a
half four feet tall. And it was just lying on
the ground in this big matt. It was just insanely huge,
insanely huge.

Speaker 3 (01:13:52):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Well, apparently they're swimming out to the islands now. They'll
swim for miles and they'll get people snorkeling and scuba diving,
and on top of that you got the box jellyfish.
And it was funny because I was out snorkeling and
I also scuba dive, but I'm not snorkeling, and they
were like, oh, you have to put this full bodysuit on.
I was like, the water's so nice and the sunshine
and I want to put this full body there all,

(01:14:15):
I said, put the full bodysuit on. I said, well why,
And they said, the box jellyfish killed somebody just last year.
They didn't want to put their thing on. You don't
see them, and if you can, if they don't get
you to the hospital within a few minutes, you're done.
If a pot or like a bunch of these box jellyfish,
which apparently you can barely see because they're super small,

(01:14:35):
and you'll swim into them, they sting you, and then
you're done. Like you just go into cardiac arrest. And
if you're not, like on an operating table, you're dead.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Monsters are real monsters?

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
A real.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Yeah? Oh we just called them crocodiles. No, no, no
are monsters. No no, we call them grizzlies. No, no, monsters,
they're monsters. It's insane.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Gorgeous look gorgeous? Is she is cranky? She's beautiful?

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Gotcha? Yeah, Hey, you guys, I have a quick question
to ask you, and I'm sorry that I'm out of
the loop on this one. You guys had one of
the longest running shows on television. I mean, didn't you
have like ten years or twelve years of Finding Bigfoot
on the Animal Planet.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
I think it was nine from start to the very
first episode to the last special, it was about nine
nine years.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
Yeah, and did you did you learn a lot from
the experience?

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
Don't trust television?

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Yeah, don't trust television.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
You know that although we fought through that one, we
kind of won that battle was a large degree. But
are you talking about the species in general or just
life lessons or what are you talking about specifically?

Speaker 3 (01:15:44):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Yeah, I could because when I was traveling for my
short stint with National Geographic, I quickly realized that it
really wasn't so much about the story as it was
making a story for television, and that the details that
were of great concern to me were of little concern

(01:16:05):
to the exit.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
That yes, yes, And then we saw that they said, Okay,
we can cater this show to you and your five
hundred friends or various of these minutia details, or we
can make a show that people watch and enjoy it.
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Really well they told me they were like, oh, we
need to dumb it down for a younger audience.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
I was like, oh yeah, they said fifth grade.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
I had an argument with one of one of our
producers one time, the guy in charge on the on
the field there, and I said, no, man like people.
If because I was a fifth grade teacher for a
living before I was on television, I don't know if
you know that. And I said, you know what, I
taught ten year olds, but I taught them high school
and college level concepts all the time. And the way
you do that is you support them. It's called scaffolding
blah blah blah, educational this and that. The audience, in

(01:16:52):
my opinion, is dying to be treated like they're intelligent.
And if we do that, they will respond in kind.
We should say things to them that are cool and
smart and science y and they'll dig it. And and
he goes, nah, they don't want that. No, no, no,
you don't want that because television is lazy. That's why
you don't want that. And maybe you don't understand. So

(01:17:15):
I don't know, but you know, to be fair, you know,
they knew they hired real bigfooters for our show. And
so with me, at least, like when I had television obligations,
I had to do the interview, I had to go
talk to the camera and this and that. But if
we're doing an on site investigation of a report or
a citing report or a photograph or something like that.

(01:17:36):
As soon as I was done, and oftentimes they'd let
me go do my obligations first. As soon as I
was done and they started interviewing Bobo or Matt or
somebody or Renee, they would let me go and take
all the notes and take all the measurements and do
my nerd notes and do all my nerd stuff. They
would let me go document everything to my satisfaction and
whatever time we had. So they did just kind of

(01:17:59):
they did let me do that, So I do appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Oh that's good. And did the results of those investigations
end up in the piece or.

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
No, they didn't end up on television. But I've I
had articles written about every single one of our episodes
for a.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Long time, did you really?

Speaker 5 (01:18:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Yeah, and they let me publish them and whatever on
my blog at the time, and yeah, there's a lot
of extra work. Well, I did it because I think
it's important that the big foot side of this was
always the most important thing to me. They thought, I
just want to be like all of us wanted to
be on TV, and we'd be thrilled with it, so no, no, no,
as far as we were concerning, we're going big footing
on their dime, but it's still big footing and we wanted,
we wanted to take the notes and do the due diligence.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
So mm hmm was there what was what was the
one most compelling encounter that you heard?

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
Oh gosh, I mean there were so many, because there
are all I mean, a lot of them are real.
Of course, we had a lot of people vetting these
people before they got to us as well, so we
knew that a lot of them were going to be
real coming to us. I don't I don't know if
there's the most compelling I don't have a hard time
of superlatives.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
There were just so many.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Couple that stand out, though, Like one of the one
of the things that stood up stood out that we
talked about. I thought of this earlier when we were
speaking about something about how sometimes at first like you
don't think it's worth looking into, but then later you
find out holy smokes or something here. And one of
those cases was in New York. Episode actually came from Vermont,

(01:19:19):
but we were in the episode is about New York
when this kid named Ian Gill came into the town
hall meeting, and I say kid. He was sixteen or
seventeen or something at the time, and and of course
I call thirty five year olds kid now. But anyway,
he came into the thing. He had this photograph that
he that he took on his iPhone five of this
figure standing on the side of the road, and he

(01:19:40):
showed it to us and whatever, and Bobo and Matts
and Renee. They all said, now, this kid's lying. There's
no reason to look into him. But they let me
go look into him, because first of all, I did
recognize as TV and I do have a sort of
a producer of mind in some ways, and I realized
that we need something visual on camera. So well, it's
a photograph, worst case scenario. I don't think it's real.

(01:20:01):
And then I just called a kid. I call a
kid out on camera, and that's good. TV got it,
no problem. And so when we went to the location
where the photograph was taken, the thing was standing next
to a stop sign, and so we got the exact location,
and that the about the top of the head came
to the bottom of the stop sign, and the stop

(01:20:23):
sign was I measured it seven foot two inches to
the top of the bottom to the bottom of the
stop sign. So this figure is right around six eight
to seven to two somewhere in there, because there's probably
some slope and there was some snow on the ground,
that kind of thing, But it was an extraordinarily large
person who was seen running. If it was a person
running across the road in a gilly suit at twelve

(01:20:44):
thirty at nine, or it's a sasquatch, And since bigfoots
are real, I tend to think that it's more likely
that it was a sasquatch because that guy, did you know,
in the middle of where they were running across the
road in the middle of the night and being that
big and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
So that's things like that to stand out to me
in some ways. So it's not so much the most
compelling case. It's these little outliers that like, oh, at
first I thought that was nonsense, but upon further investigation,
holy smokes, maybe that's real. I think that's the kind
of thing is cool.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Yeah, And some of the things that actually don't make
it on television, some of the people that actually don't
want to go on TV and talk about their experience
that they're willing to talk about it off camera. Those
are incredibly compelling, like, for instance, the Brigadier Brazilian Air
Force gentlemen Josie Carlos Pereira that I met with, the
fact that he was willing to say this case happened
off camera, with no recording devices, no record of it whatsoever,

(01:21:37):
was very very strong, powerful testimony for me. And sometimes,
you know, like a for instance, in terms of hearing
people talk about Bigfoot, the most compelling stories I've heard
were never on TV people that I knew. I've only
heard four or five directly from the witnesses mouths. But

(01:21:59):
another one was was a power line worker in a
remote area or near the Lost Coast and he came
within I don't know ten feet and broad daily to
this thing. Scared the Bejesus out of him. I just thought,
you know, wow, I just happened to ask the guy,
you know, hey, have you ever you know, because I
always ask have you ever seen big Foot? I think
it's kind of fun.

Speaker 6 (01:22:17):
You know, people that work out wilderness areas where it's
known to be, you know, you get these accounts and
I don't know, man, why on Earth this person selling
their story?

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
They didn't ask about it. I asked them, do you
remember where on the Lost Coast? No, but I can
ask my cousin.

Speaker 3 (01:22:34):
Yeah, I'd love to find that. I was just there yesterday,
were you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
My cousin used to live in Westport, so I used
to go and see him all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:22:42):
Right, So it was probably down yeah, down there at
the south end. That's what I was figuring that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Now, was this this, this young sixteen year old boy
that took a photograph, alleged photograph of this creature. Was
he living in Vermont when he took the photograph?

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
I think he was, if I remember the I think
he was actually living in Vermont, and he was on
his way out to his grandmother's cabin or something with
a bunch of his kid friends, you know, high school friends.
And he was in the passenger seat of the truck twelve,
twelve thirty at night. The scene runs across the road
and a stand there next to the road, you know,
So he puts his arm out the window with his
iPhone five and snaps a picture and then pulled ahead.

(01:23:19):
And did you guys see that? They turned around and
came out, and they came and parked and the thing
was gone by then, but then they heard some like
yelling they described as ah kind of yelling in the distance,
and that's all they got.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
Basically, Wow, God's that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
It took a sixteen year old kid to get his
phone out open and camera, you know, camera going and
snap a picture going fifty five miles an hour, like,
all in within less than five seconds. I was pretty impressed.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
So he didn't stop at the stop sign, and they
drove past.

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):
It there on the highway. It was a stop sign
coming for the road approaching approaching.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
The Oh wow, Well, you know I live in Vermont now,
so that's why I Well.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
Most of the stuff in Vermont I think. I mean
not most, but a whole lot of it comes out
of Green Mountain in that area.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
It's pretty rural where I live, and I'll drive to
different locations and I go through. I always go to
the back roads and I see, like, you know, people
with statues of a bigfoot in their backyard. It's always
makes me laugh, you know, it's like, well those are
those are there probably for a reason, people believe, or.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
We catch it until four thirty were screwing you up here?

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
Oh no, it's all good, but I would go probably
go read to my son as I'd love to do.
But but gentlemen, it's it's always a pleasure. This is
one of the more enjoyable the fact that we got
to go on tangents and talk about life experiences and
just odd things. It was a lot of fun. And

(01:24:47):
I would like to add one thing if I may.
If your audience does want to rent Moment of Contact,
to rent it from the cheapest place, which would be Amazon.
But if you buy it, do it from iTunes or vim.
You know, because it comes with two hours of bonus
material at the same price. And a lot of people
don't know that, and so they go, why didn't you
tell me? And then if we wouldn't mind, I asked

(01:25:09):
people if you could take a moment on iTunes or Amazon,
and if you like the film, rate it. I mean,
if you don't like the film, rate it too, but
preferably you liked it and rate it. It's very helpful for us.
So we're independent, and you know, all the execs are like,
no one's going to watch a documentary in a foreign
language on a UFO case with live aliens walking through
the town. Clearly it didn't happen. And the level of

(01:25:31):
skepticism that I that I've encountered on this case has been,
you know, significant. I think we're starting to prove them wrong,
that there is an appetite for this particularly oh yeah,
incredible fashion, which we did. I would never put my
thirty year reputation on the line for a case I
didn't believe happened. It's an extraordinary case. It's out their case.

(01:25:53):
I can't think of a more out there case, quite honestly.
And all the cases that I've investigated around the world,
you know, where you've got an alleged crash and live
aliens walking through the town being captured, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
Just someone dying from touching it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
Someone dying it from capturing it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
I don't think that the thing deliberately killed him. I
think he just got an infection as a result of
capturing it, got a scratch and died.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
And check out The Phenomenon too, folks, If you watch
The Phenomenon first, like that movie, I think that that's
still I think that's still This is my second favorite
big UFO movie, The Phenomenon. I think that's the that's
your whatever. Pick a Beatles album. I mean it's just
sure what album. But then this is your Sergeant Peppers.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
We all live in the Eli Submarine. I know that's
not Sergeant Peppers, but anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:26:45):
You put up the two best UFO movies I've ever seen,
back to back, by far, the two best I've seen.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
Oh, thank you, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:26:52):
I appreciate I work hard. I try to.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
I try to push the envelope a little bit, but
I try to present it in a way that I'm
presenting a case to a jury. You know, obviously we
can't draw any definitive conclusions, but we can put forth
compelling eyewitness testimony and allow the audience to draw their
own conclusions. But yeah, guys, it's been a slice of
havin as per usual. I hope that it's not until
my next film that we meet again.

Speaker 3 (01:27:16):
All right, James, thanks for doing this. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Bud, Yeah, man, thanks so much, great guest, good conversations.
I love learning about this stuff is fantastic. Thank you man.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
You guys, thanks so much for having me on. I
appreciate it. We'll talk hopefully really soon.

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
Okay, II, thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
For listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, Please rate and review
us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag

(01:27:58):
Bigfoot and Beyond.