Thinking Sideways: The Montauk Project

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thinking Sideways. I don't know, you've never known stories of
things we simply don't know the answer to. Hey, everyone,
this is Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Devin, joined as

(00:29):
always by Joe and Steve and Steve and Steve. Hey, guys,
happy birthday. Huh but it's our birthday today? Where you're
all today? Not quite? Yeah? Yeah, it's been fifty two.
Isn't this our fifty second episode in fifty two weeks?
Fifty two weeks? Yeah, but the first? Oh why? Yeah?

(00:54):
Well think of it this way. Your birthday is on
a certain day, right, and there's three days in the year,
so on day three, it's the day before your birthday.
If your birthday's day one, it makes sense. Alright, fine,
I'm just gonna trust you, guys, So fine, never mind,
Happy birthday next week. Thank you for the wishes. You're welcome.

(01:17):
I'm it's about to be delivered in the form of
this episode. Okay, and this is a juicy and testing episode.
It's a it's an okay one. Yeah, it's actually a
listener suggestion from way back, probably one of our first
listener suggestions. Yeah, it's it's an old one. Yeah, we

(01:37):
got it. Via Reddit actually from a user named oh
and eight oh and eight. No, it's and eight oh
and date. Thank you. Sorry, sorry it took me so well. Actually,

(01:57):
let's be honest. I remember we all say Joe would
probably do this story. So it's really Joe's fault that
we haven't done this story. Yeah, that's true. A slacker.
Now this one was. This one was a little too
overwhelming and confusing. It's it's one of these ones where
how it got it got its start and pretty soon
like everything with the kitchen sink was in there. Yeah,
that's why I have this handy dandy bullet point list

(02:19):
of all the things that I think are hilarious attached
to them. So what are we talking about. We're gonna
talk about the mont Talk Project. Oh yeah, yeah, and
of course it's it's sister project, the Philadelphia. Well we're
gonna go ahead and gloss over the Philadelphia experiment today.
But you know that it's connected. Apparently it's connected, well

(02:44):
connect connected in that it exists in the same universe. Um,
but I figured conoman and you know what this could explain.
This is why it's your birthday gift, Steve is because
it could actually explain every all of the fifty two
stories we have thus far tackled. Yeah, anyways, I just
figured we would gloss over the Philadelphia project, save it

(03:07):
for a rainy day, alright, because it's too big for
little old me to handle. It is kind of a
big tangled mess. Yeah. The Montalk Project, I'm saying that right, right,
is this um series of secret US government projects that
were conducted at UM. I think I'm as far as

(03:30):
I can tell, it's the same place. It's Camp Hero,
which was renamed the Montauk Air Force Station, right, the
Camp Hero became no, the other way around. I think
that there was a Montak Air Force Station and then
they donated the land to the county or something I
thought to Nasau County, and then they turned it into
they turned into a park, right. But Camp Hero was

(03:52):
during the World Wars. It was an army base, and
then it became an air Force base. Then they donated
it to be a state park. Right, Okay, I'll buy that.
It's in Montalk, Long Island. Apparently it existed for the
purpose of developing psychological warfare techniques and exotic research in

(04:13):
two time travel or Yeah, well, I was going to
do I feel like that's psychological warfare kind of right.
Or alternately, there was a stargate there and Nicola Tesla
and some aliens probably made it entirely possible. I you know,
I'm laughing at that, but we'll talk about it in

(04:35):
a minute. Yes, yeah, does have a role in this
m So I'm gonna tell you guys a little story
hopp in the not so way back machine. We're not
going to hop in the way back machine. We just
took it out last week. We gotta Yeah, it's so.
In nineteen forty five, American troops liberated France, Right, that's true.

(04:56):
We know that that's not really a conspiracy. Apparently, at
the same time, some troops discovered a train full of
Nazi gold that was stopped in a tunnel. They notified
the proper authorities, who arrived on the scene, took the gold,
and then killed all the soldiers because dead men tell
no tails and I couldn't. I couldn't. So were these

(05:17):
the soldiers that discovered it? There were US soldiers or
soldiers that were already on the train. It was Nazi
soldiers that they killed. Oh, I understood it that it
was a soldiers. Yeah, that's why I'm asking because I
remember thinking I read that it was they killed all
the Nazi soldiers. Well, I think they probably just killed everyone.
Well yeah, I mean, if there were not these soldiers,

(05:38):
certainly they killed them. But I'm given to understand they
also killed the Allied soldiers. This is a release of
call of duty, basically, is what you know? You're right here, Yeah,
you gotta kill everybody in the tea bag them. Yeah.
So you know, the moral of the story is a
kind of train load of gold. You just like hide
it and don't tell anybody, you know, you not your
national secret. Oh my, what's that national treasure? Yeah? You

(06:02):
national treasure? Yeah, I'm on it. Okay. Also, at the
same time, during the crumbling Reich, right, that's how you
say that word, the third Reich, the third Reich. I
just you know what, sometimes I can't say words. It's fine.
We know this. Americans were helping German scientists flee the country,
which we also recognize as probably being true or absolutely

(06:23):
being true or I don't know how many we got
out before the wars the end, but we certainly got
grabbed a bunch of them after the world was over too.
Can I can, I can I interrupt something. Fine, all right,
because we're talking about this paper clip and we're talking
about the Germans a little bit here, I'm guessing that
some of the weird German experiments or why we took

(06:46):
these guys. Yeah, So, did you guys see the article
that's come out recently about Hitler and Himmler and the
awesome stuff that they wanted to do making their own
Jurassic Park. Know what? I didn't hear about that one. Yeah,
it's it's so funny and evidently this is quote unquote
true papers that have been discovered. Is that to help

(07:11):
show that the German lineage had been there was always
the strong people. What they were gonna do is they
were gonna backwards engineer some it's a bull or some
kind of cow that was seven feet tall that was
from the dracks Jurassic period and release it into the
wilds of Poland so that these strong men of the
Reich could hunt them. Because that's right up there with

(07:32):
the crazy stuff that we're going to talk about that
these guys were in. I guess I feel like if
I had a lot of money and was planning on
taking over the world, I would probably build a Jurassic Park.
I think they had a real Jurassic I think they
probably should. We saw how well that worked in film
number one through four. Well, obviously we wouldn't dummies' realistic. Anyways,

(07:56):
back to our story. Sorry, sorry, operational opera and lots
of these scientists were brought back to America and teamed
up with scientists who worked on the Philadelphia experiment. Given
the Nazi gold that we were just talking about, why
were they give the Nazi go and and a research
facility that was built underground and that became the Montalk Project,

(08:18):
building a twelve story underground complex. Maybe yeah, we'll talk
about but they built under there in a minute, because
it turns out apparently the government, though they have given
all of the land to the Forest Service, they still
own the land below the radar unit that sits on
top of the Montalk Project. Yeah, apparently that's that's true.

(08:41):
But they I think what that meant really is that
they kept the mineral rights just in case, you know,
gold was discovered or something like that. And I'm not
talking Nazi gold. Gold were discovered, Yeah, but why did
they give them the Nazi gold to pay them in
to fund their research? But why didn't they just like
get some money from the treasury. Well, because there was
this Nazi gold. I mean you have gold, well, I

(09:04):
don't know. I mean I think you have to launder
it somehow. You can't just like go to the bank
and say, hey, here's all this Nazi gold. We're gonna
we're gonna keep it melted down. I mean, I guess
you probably could. You are the US government. I don't know.
It's a good question. Um, I don't have a good answer. Sorry.
I can keep making things up if you want. We'll

(09:27):
move on. Okay. The base is all the way at
the end of this island, the east end of Yeah.
For people who live on Long Island, you follow Route seven.
I don't know what that means. It's a it's a point.
It's kind of a spit of land. It's kind of yeah.
If you if you look at Google Maps, like the

(09:48):
highway goes out on the south side of the island
and then Montak Point is like there's just like this
little blob that's the very very end. That's why. Then
it narrows down to this very narrow, skinny little passageway
widens out again and that's where Camp Hero and all
that other stuff is yeah. So, um, in World War
Two it was called Camp hero H and it was

(10:08):
used for coastal defense, had like really big guns. Well
it's got the big radar station on it. Well, now
did they have guns? They had large guns and bunkers.
And then that was the Army gave the base to
the Air Force and it became known as the Montalk
Air Force Station and they built this big radar if

(10:29):
you google Montalk project, and actually we'll put up some
pictures on the website too. That huge radar thing is
what we're talking about. Apparently it was used as an
actual radar station in the Cold War. And what kind
of do you remember what kind of radar it is?
It starts with an S. I thought it was an
age or something like that, remember, Yeah, I mean it was.

(10:51):
It was. It was a technology that as soon as
they built it was at a date it was no
longer worth anything. It was like, I was a chance
to go on board an old fifties era submarine that
was called the Sailfish and it was built as a
radar picket boat. Because their radars weren't small enough to
put on planes. They could land on aircraft carriers, but
the aircraft carriers needed greadar coverage, so they built a

(11:13):
series of submarines that had these enormous sales and these
retractable radar dishes and everything so they could be a
distance out with their radars on, monitoring for incoming enemy
planes and everything. And then before they even I don't
think they even did much time in service, and then
it became obsolete, and so what we do with this thing? Well,
I guess we'll just turn it into a regular submarine

(11:34):
with a really huge, huge sale on it for fun. Yeah,
that's what they did then, because we can thrown it away. Yeah,
according to the legend, I guess the base lost its
funding in the nineteen sixties because the radar technology became obsolete.
But apparently it was open until three because they were

(11:55):
doing experiments, I guess. And as Joe previously stated, the
it's a to New York State Park now, but the
radar equipment is still intact in standing. You can actually
see it on Google Earth. Yeah. Yeah, well, and people
use it rather than the lighthouse. It's on Montauk Point.
They use. The radar is kind of a daytime reference

(12:16):
point because it's it's easier to see the lighthouse. It's big,
it's really big. And you know, as I said before,
the story is that they actually built bunkers below it,
like built down um, and that the government retains the
rights to that, whether it's actually not improved on there

(12:37):
and it's minerals or what have you. Apparently the US
government still owns whatever is below. So apparently if if
in fact there is something below there, it's the base itself,
and the radar was actually a cover up for what
was below. Apparently there were as many as twelve stories deep.

(13:00):
I don't know what do you call it when it's
not levels levels deep. Some people say that it's like
really really documented, that there's a subtranean city beneath the
base that's still being used today by secret branches of
the military. People say that the radar equipment was built
as a cover up that the military could conduct experiments
in time travel in mind control, and that the electronics

(13:22):
equipment was a cover for that. People also say that
there's a fifty foot tall pure titanium pyramid under there.
So I guess we'll take what people say with a
little bit of a grain of salt. A titanium pyramid.
I don't know. I was thinking like it would make
more sense to say it was gold and then that's
what they used, the Nazi gold pork. But a pretty

(13:42):
big pyramid. Yeah, but I don't know why. Pure Titania
because it conducts spacetime anti matter better radio. Yeah. I
gotta say, if you're going to build a twelve level
underground complex, that seems like a really inappropriate place to
do it. Yeah, it's pretty close to the water where

(14:04):
the water table, pretty close to the surface there. It
seems like there's a lot easier places to build. It's conceivable,
But I think they'd go like hollow Watter Mountain or
something like that, or maybe pick a dormant volcano and
build their layer in there. Maybe they needed the seawater.
Good point. I want to point something out too. I'm
ashamed of all all the people out there that have

(14:26):
gone over this story so many times. We're not noticing
this obvious thing. But only twenty miles away to the
north northwest is Grout in Connecticut, home almost US submarine base,
and it's entirely possible they were smuggling Nazi gold, scientists
and everything else via submarine across the Long Island Sound
to a secret subterranean submarine base underneath the complex that

(14:50):
I see it. Yeah, I get it. Actually, that's a
really breakthrough theory. That's a really good theory. Absolutely totally.
That's because when you think about it, why would they
pick this particular spots such in such a populous area
for the area it's fairly it's as somewhat deserted, but
it's such a populous area, you know why they wanted
to go out somewhere in New Mexico in the middle

(15:12):
of the desert somewhere. Well, think about what's twenty miles away.
Submarine base. I know it makes no sense. No, actually,
I mean it makes more sense than a lot of
stuff we're gonna talk about tonight, when you're talking about
twelve level underground complexes. I think a secret subterranean submarine
the base is kind of kind of a necessary thing.
I think it's kind of cool. Yeah, I agree. Interesting.

(15:35):
So here's the story, kind of I'm sorry, here's the theory,
the kind of overarching theory or what happened here or
what was happening here? I don't know. There's a lot
of these. This is the one that I like. The most.
I feel like there's a lot here with your favorite

(15:57):
and then just trail down from there. I mean, the
rest of them are just kind of like weird assertions,
like nobody has gone spent very much time to kind
of give anecdotal evidence or anything like that. Then well, okay,
this one is too, but there's this anecdotal evidence that
whereas the other ones I can bull up point down.

(16:19):
That makes sense. Okay, So honor about August twelfth three,
all credible stories start with honor about just throw that
out there. A porthole in time quote unquote was created
which allowed researchers to travel anywhere in space or time.
This was developed into a stable quote time tunnel because

(16:41):
of this to a single point in the past. Well, no,
they could kind of control it. Maybe it's unclear. There
are two kind of variations on what happened specifically because
of this in the first instance, Uh, they both kind
of have the same thing to kind of have. Well,

(17:03):
well let's just start talking about this, okay. Um, so
because of this time tunnel was just a really long tunnel.
Did you need like a golf cart? Because of this
time tunnel, either the Time Travel Project at Montauk interlocked

(17:24):
in hyperspace with the original Philadelphia experiment in nineteen forty three.
The story tends to go thus, like the USS Aldridge
that was in the Philadelphia experiment, I guess, I don't know.
I was drawn into hyperspace and trapped there. Two men
Alt how do you say his name? Black and Duncan
Cameron both claimed to have leaped from the deck of

(17:46):
the USS All Eldredge while it was in hyperspace and
ended up after a period of severe disorientation at Camp
Hero in the year three. At the mont Talk project,
they claimed to have John von Newman. That's how you
would say that, right, That's how I say that. He's

(18:10):
a physicist and mathematician. Um. He died in nineteen fifty seven. Three.
Just calm down. He apparently, that scientist Von Newman Um
also was apparently connected to the Philadelphia experiment. So the
claim is that they actually in Montalk the time tunnel

(18:32):
opened up into the Philadelphia experiment. Maybe Apparently. The origin
of the Montalk project dates also to nineteen forty three,
when radar invisibility was being researched aboard the U S S. Eldredge.
I don't know it's kind of this modgepodge of story

(18:53):
that I can't totally tell. Here's the easy way to
think about the Philadelphia experiment. They wanted to figure out
how to make a ship invisible the radar. They did
some cookie science, and some kids in a van got involved. Okay,
now that parts out real, But they accidentally made the
ship disappear for a couple of moments. It completely went

(19:16):
invisible to the naked eye and radar, It traveled through time,
and then it zipped back to where it came from,
and people were dead because they had fused with the
ship or were completely loony. Yeah, mentally, that's the simple
cliff notes version of the Philadelphia experience. Sure, so apparently

(19:36):
where the ship ended up was the Montalk project apparently,
so that would that would explain a lot. Though. So
when it disappears, that's because the Montalk thing is causing
it to go like that. And I can't decide if
they if the theory is that the Philadelphia Experiment caused
the time tunnel opening, or if the mont Talk experiment

(20:01):
caused the uss Aldredge to disappear, But somehow they made
it up that forty year bridge. Yeah, apparently and then
was his name? Jumped off the ship and wound up
in Montalk? Yeah, what's his name? Alan Duncan and Duncan
Cameron And I can't tell you guys said that you
watched some interviews with him? Is that try? I listened

(20:21):
to part of an interview with alb Be Like, is
that how we're saying his name? Be? Like? Okay? And
I couldn't totally tell if he claimed to have been
part of the Philadelphia experiment in nine three. He did.
It's really weird. He claims he was. He was on

(20:41):
that ship in forty three, and then he jumped off
in Montalk and he well, he jumped off while it
was traveling through hyperspace, so he looked at his buddy,
Richard Dean Anderson said I'm out of here, and jumped
out while he was in the wormhole, and he traveled
in time. He says he ended up in the year

(21:01):
twenty three hundred in something and was there for a while,
and then he ended up in the year twenty eight
hundred and something and lived there for a while, both
times having no recollection of who he was at first,
and then eventually figuring it out, and then somehow traveling
back in time and ending up in and then when

(21:24):
he was he lived there for a while. Yeah. Yeah,
he was a tour guide. Was a tour guy. He
was a tour guide because they had cities that were
twenty two or twenty three hundred stories tall, and they
had anti gravity technology, and they had computers that ran
the government, and as he said, they were a socialist society.

(21:46):
There's a lot of weird stuff in in his stuff.
Anybody wants to listen to it. There's a bunch of
his interviews online. I didn't listen to all of them,
but it's about three hours of interviews. There's a couple
of them that are kind of compiled really a three
hour video that you can just listen to, and it's
all most of it's just audio. But I'm not gonna
say that he's a kuk or a loot or anything

(22:08):
like that. But he makes some pretty fantastic claims, and
most of his stories are really really simple. Like he says, well,
then they had train systems, except their train cars were
wider than ours. It's a train, okay, Well, what's so
futuristic about a train? It's some weird stuff, like very

(22:29):
like very simple I almost wonder if he, you know,
accidentally did LSD or something. Yeah. The thing about it
is is like, and this is why you know he's
full of he's full of it. It's because he traveled
to the future. And I think about this. I mean,
if somebody from say two d years ago transports to
our time, he would see things that would be that

(22:51):
would have been inconceivable in his time. Not just he
wouldn't have just seen things that would have been an improvement.
He wouldn't have seen, you know, a donkey on steroids
and a sup turpo charge steam locomotive. He would see
things like airplanes and iPads and the Internet. He would
see stuff that his society could not have conceived of.

(23:14):
Probably like and all of his stories, not a single
thing that he saw so many centuries in the future,
not a single thing that he saw, is something that
doesn't already exist in our society today, which tells us
that either all human creativity basically disappeared about you know
about right about now, or that you know, the guy
is just basically full of it. Well, and he also

(23:35):
he also makes the jump that the human world population
was kind of decimated at some point in the near
future and some war and that seems like the sort
of thing you would get some serious details on. Well,
and do you remember the Georgia guidestones. He talks about

(23:55):
the New World Order and that at the year hundred
the planet was at what was it, uh, five hundred
thousand or five hundred million, five million people? They were
keeping the population right around that number. So it's when
did he do these interviews? Uh? There several years ago?
It was really hard. I thought I thought it was

(24:17):
from two thousands. Yeah, he is something like that. Yeah,
So his interview was I mean, he was talking about
the Internet, and it was strange because I swore at
her in the Internet. At one point they said two
thousand twelve, but then that he would start talking about
the early two thousand. So I couldn't tell exactly when
the interview I listened to was, but it just was very,

(24:40):
very close to what modern technology was. And I agree
with Joe. They weren't revelations. They weren't amazing, you know,
Oh they had they had a sidewalk where you stood
on it and just jetted you around town, like the
thing at the airport, and like the thing that Isaac
asked them. I was writing had in some of his

(25:01):
robot novels, and he wrote in the nineteen sixties, do
you remember who is? I borrowed the Ring World series
from you, Larry Niven, And if anybody hasn't read Ring
World or Larry Niven there they're good books, their sci fi,
but they were written before a lot of technology came out.
And so the technology that he forecasted was very simple advances.

(25:26):
And that's what this guy was talking about was things
that were very simple advances. But they were six hundred,
eight hundred years in the futures. The world is only
fillion people, And why do you need cities that are
like stories tall? Well, they were. They had anti gravity
and they could just float all over the planet, live
where they wanted. And so you know what, this week

(25:46):
we're in Rio, next week we're in the Antarctica. I
don't know they have ships like that you can live on.
They do? They do? So okay, the sidebar, I guess,
well we've gone off. I think we have so either
this whole like fusion with Philadelphia Project or Aliens. I

(26:11):
guess they're not mutually exclusive. They could have both happened,
but Aliens apparently there was some some contact with aliens
that happened at the Montalk project through this time tunnel,
the stable time tunnel, there were some underground tunnels with
abandoned cultural archives that were explored on Mars using the
technique where apparently some kind of Martians had once lived

(26:33):
thousands and thousands of years earlier, and there was contact
made with the aliens through the time tunnel. I guess
that gave them some kind of advanced technologies to enhance
them Ontalk project so that they were able to actually
do the initial time tunnel without alien technology, I guess,

(26:55):
and then they somehow the time tunnel also opened into
a space tunnel. All that also took us to Mars.
I think it's one thing for me to make the
leap of hey, this this time tunnel opened up and
it it opened up to someplace that's like pretty close,
just like you know, forty years ago or whatever. It's

(27:16):
another to say, hey, this time tunnel opened up and
it opened up five thousand years in the future on Mars.
I don't I mean, I don't know how those things work,
but yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, that's
the thing about it is, it's like the universe is
a huge place, and and actually inhabitable places that exists
are an infinites only small. Yeah. Yeah, so it goes

(27:39):
out to a random place, it's probably just going to
be empty space, or the inside of a planet, or
the inside of a star. Yeah. Those all seem like
really dangerous things to right you. Every time you hear
about a time tunnel opening up, it happens to be
in a place that isn't the vacuum of space that
sucks the entire world through this into a black hole, right,

(27:59):
I'm and that seems rather convenient to me. Well, they
did that on Stargate once they that's true, they had
to frantically shut down the stargate. But they happened on Stargate, which,
by the way, I'm going to go back to Stargate
every time you say time tunnel because it sounds like it.
So they just they were just like channel surfing and
they came to the Yeah. Yeah, they went to this

(28:20):
planet and it had the ring, and that planet was
being sucked into a black hole. And the guys that
went out there, we're all being spaghettification. Is that what
it's called when you get sucked into a black hole?
Because you're you're stretched out and and time slows down,
and so they were they were watching everybody slow down
and being spaghettified. They had to quickly shut it down

(28:42):
so the ground he didn't suck the world through the Yeah, yeah,
get to the gate. Ye sorry, I'm just I'm just
telling you right now. I'm going to do that every
time I can. Apparently this allowed a broader access to
hyperspace and also developed allowed a language of hyperspace to

(29:02):
be developed. I just don't even that kind of like
esperanto or is that like a mathematical language. It's unclear.
I have to be honest, it may be a language
of mathematics. I did not try to look it up.
I want to be honest with you. I don't know
that we could actually. So there's some other stuff that's

(29:25):
really interesting, and this is kind of my bullet point list.
The first interesting fact connected to the Montalk Project other
than the ones that we've already talked about, are that
apparently Nikola Tesla faked his death in a conspiracy and
was the chief director of operations at the Montalk Project
UM and was through I guess through the eighties, which

(29:48):
would make him like a hundred and twenty something like
that years old, So that seems really true. But he
was he was when he died, if he was in
his eighties, like his early you know, I've seen pictures
of not long before his death, and he didn't look
that hot. He didn't look so good. No, he did not,

(30:09):
And reportedly he was getting a little bit flaking the
head in his old age, as most of us do. Yeah,
especially when you play with electricity as much as he. Yeah. Yeah,
so so I'm not sure it would have been much
used to the project. However, happy I would be that
Nikola Tesla was still alive today. Yeah, I would be
so happy. Well, haven't you watched Sanctuary? He's a vampire.
He's totally alive. You've never seen that show. Oh, I'm

(30:31):
totally going off on random TV shows? State, aren't I?
The Sanctuary ran for like three years, but Nicola Tesla
was was a vampire. I guess I'll go watch that. Then.
It's pretty he's a super smart guy. Yeah, Thomas Edison
is another vampire. That'd be great. No, Edison was a vampire.
He was just a jerk. Yeah, he really was. Okay,

(30:54):
next little tidbit of conspiracy there are reports from the
nineteenth eve means that nineteen seventies, excuse me, that surveillance
showed quote, the formation of a large bubble of time
space centered upon the site unquote, which is apparently proof
of the time tunnel. Apparently there was pictorial proof of that,

(31:18):
which conveniently was burgled from the only person who had it,
which seems like a normal thing for satellite surveillance. Well, yeah,
that that guy was Remember that that guy, I can't
remember his name now, but he was a reporter, right, No, no,
he was, he was. He was a Russian. Yeah, it
was a defector from Russia. He was interviewed by a reporter.
I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, and he had he had access

(31:40):
to satellite surveillance and he was like Russian and South American.
He was so weird combination Spanish, Russian, something like that.
And as soon as he spilled the beans, then they
broke into his apartment only stole the papers. I know
now that could have like mess the place up and
stole his TV too, just to cover up. Yeah, but
I seriously would like to know from why would you

(32:01):
steal the TV? You know how TV? Yeah, they were
only about this anyway, the I really want to know
what a bubble of space time looks like. I would
like to know that too, because yeah, how how does
it look at a different from the spacetime that we
exist in right now? I don't know. Maybe it bows out,
I don't know. Maybe everything looks super spaghettified. I don't know. Yeah,

(32:26):
that I can't answer. I have not seen that on
TV yet. Yeah. Apparently, also at the mont Talk Project,
people had their psychic abilities enhanced already amazing theory that
allowed them to materialize objects that would of thin air.
They could just think a thing into existence. I guess
they couldn't all do that, but some of them, my guys,

(32:48):
were so so incredibly advanced and powerful that they could actually,
like and one of them, one of them, like like
materialize a big foot out of air, and it went
berserker and started destroyed, destroyed like re levels and they
had to be Yeah, did you hear the theory of
why the YETI was was created or was brought in? Oh?

(33:09):
This is this is this is way down the rabbit hole.
It's absolutely I can't remember the name of the guy
that supposedly was had his psychic abilities enhanced, And of
course by having those abilities enhanced, he had other issues
like emotional issues created. But he and some other people

(33:31):
at that time, I think it was in the eighties.
They said because it shut down on eight three. Right
said that they realized that the project had gotten out
of control, and so what they did is to shut
it down. When he was in they had a mind
chair where there it was an alien chair, which is

(33:53):
also a stargate phenomena. He sat at it and he
thought of the worst monster he could and he thought
of a seven foot yetti. Went went through and rampage
through the complex and rip the place asunder, doing so
much damage that the project had to be shut down,
and they saved our timeline. I um. I was kind

(34:15):
of hoping that you were going to tell me. It's
like from Ghostbusters with the Marsha with the stuff Marshall
Man where they were like, okay, think of anything you want,
and he's like, don't think of a yettie, don't think
of a yetti. Don't think of a YETI crap, I
thought of a yetti. That was my hope. Apparently, also
at the Montalk project they put microchips embedded them in

(34:39):
the workers brains to control the people who worked there,
or to make them forget that they worked there or
totally make sense whatever. Also apparently, um, the Montalk Project
is where they train the Men in Black two quote
Yeah it might be. So that's that's another part of it,
right They apparently the Men in Black were developed to

(35:00):
quote confuse and frighten the public. Also the Montalk Project
where they staged the moon landing, or possibly they tunneled
to the future with their time tunnel to get technology
from the aliens, or they tunneled to a time when
people could go to the Moon and just then wait, wait, wait, wait,
this is I've seen most of these these things here.

(35:24):
But you're telling me that the Montalk Project is responsible
for either a making the Moon landing or re faking it. Yeah,
both of those possibilities. Yeah, yeah, that that potentially they
faked it there, right, they staged it there, or this
time tunnel existed and they got the alien technology that

(35:46):
that enabled them to actually go to the Moon. But
either way, it wasn't just like United States ingenuity that
let us go to the The thing about it is
is there's no evidence of any alien technology and the
Apollo program, I mean, are you kidding me, Crown. Oh, okay,
you win, ok yeah, there's no need for alien technology there.

(36:12):
I like the Civil War one. Yeah, apparently. Also some
of the things that one of the things they did
with this time tunnel was they went back because apparently
the first time we did the Civil War it went
the wrong way. So they fixed the outcome of the
Civil War. So the South one the world was so
terrible that the Confederate is at the South. The Confederacy's

(36:36):
version realized it was terrible, made their own Montauk project
to send people back to make sure the Confederacy lost
the second time around. I guess I don't know, I
don't know. Maybe it was people who were, you know,
like still fighting for the North. Who I mean, not still,
but you know, there are people who still think that
the Confederacy should have won right in two thousand fourteen.

(36:57):
So maybe it was the you know, the obviously the
smarter people. I was gonna say, because most of the
people who think that they fly the flag, they drive
the truck, they drink the beer, and once a year
they go to the re enactment. They don't build quantum
machines in their garage. I have a lot of choice
derogatory things to say. I mean it, it wouldn't be

(37:21):
the Southerners at the south and one right, But that's
what I'm saying is that the Northerners would have then
they would have said, wow, this turned out bad. Let's
create a lot of really advanced technology and go back
and fix it. But the thing about instead of flying
the flag and going to the re enactment once a year,
you know, But to think about it is is that
if the US had split, well, there's a couple of

(37:41):
different outcomes. One is that things might have turned out
better or just perfectly. Okay, the South would go do
their thing, we do our thing, and so you know,
it wouldn't be seen we see it from the perspective
as of us now as the South winning is being
a hideous thing. But maybe as far as the north
it goes people living in the North, it would have been.
And so the only thing is slavery. Let's throw that

(38:03):
out there. Slavery, I mean, slavery was going to go
the way of the Dodo. Industrialization did away with slavery anyway.
I mean, it would have gone. He's got a point,
that's true. Yes, slavery would no longer be existing in
the twentieth century. On the other other hand, you know
that the United States, if it were split up, might
not have ever become a real world power and might
not have even participated in World War Two. So I

(38:23):
don't know, it's a big question all these unnable noble
things are It's true. Um so more things that happened
at the Montalk Project. Um, the Jersey Devil was created there.
We haven't tackled the Jersey devil. What is the Jersey Devil?
Is the good question? Yeah, and that's I mean the

(38:43):
question the devil. No, I mean the Jersey Devil is
a cryptozoology creature, like a came era kind of thing.
Well though, it could be a bigfoot, It could be
something like a the Tasmanian devil. It could be a uh,
could be a chupa cabra it, it could be a

(39:04):
lot of things. Could be a bat man guy, could
be a situation. This is the thing again. I'm sure
we'll do a show on this, yea, we probably will. Also,
apparently AIDS was manufactured here, because that's the thing. Steve
is looking at me like I am the person who

(39:26):
believes this theory, the idea that it was manufactured one.
You know, if you really want a new hideous disease
to come along, I gotta do this sort of sit back,
drink a beer in a way for sub Saharan Africa
to crank a new one out. I mean that's all
there is to I mean, look AT's say, for example, ebola. Yeah,
but the problem right, okay, so the thing I okay,

(39:48):
oh my gosh, I can't blue about to do this.
But the thing is is that like ebola you catch
as a rich person, just disease lose, you could catch
as like a as a poor person. Right, I mean
it's an airborne illness, right, it's a it's whatever. It's
communicable in other ways other than like physically having a right.

(40:10):
So the benefit of AIDS, right, Ostensibly, if you were
going to manufacture something is that you would just say
I will only have contact with people I no, do
not have this, and then I will never get it.
So I guess unless you got a blood transfusion or
something like that, but they clean that stuff out. Yeah. Now,

(40:31):
then because there might be some rare fraff, you might
want to just letally know that I'm going to let
that go. Yeah, you should Yeah, anyways, just as a so,
I guess that's why, like last big one, the whole
the whole thing is still standing. That's my last theory
of things that happened there is the AIDS thing. Oh

(40:54):
I thought it was your does the which was my
favorite phrase of this is how we're just gonna know,
We're just gonna let that, we're just going Yes. So
the whole thing, the radar and the building that it's
on top of, and ostensibly the fifty foot titanium pyramid
below are still there, and the and that the soldiers with,

(41:15):
So that that's exactly the segue, right, is that apparently
this base is abandoned. It's just part of the State
Park in New York. But ostensibly people say that civilians
visiting the park or park are routinely threatened by armed
government agents that are um ordering them to not venture

(41:37):
into certain areas of the park. Apparently, electrical workers report
having installed a power station capable of using giga watts
of energy, like enough to power a city. And apparently
every once in a while, strange lights or shapes are
seen on the sky over head anywhere. And here's here's
here's something that's weird. I wanted to kind of get

(41:58):
an idea of what the place looked like today, So
I went on Google Maps and checked it out, and
I was looking at the street map, no big deal.
And then I wanted to try and figure out where
the satellite was or the radar dish, so I turned
it onto satellite view, and then thought, well, I'm just
gonna I'm gonna pull a Joel and I'm just gonna
cruise around the streets and check everything out. Except you

(42:20):
can't because every time you come around a corner there's
a couple of guys with eric no, no, no. You
know how when you when you're in Google Maps today
and you go and you what do they call the
little guy that you drop on the map? Yeah? Whatever
he is, he's got a name. I can't think of it. Whenever,

(42:41):
whenever you get the map to come up to show
where he'll go. All the roads around Camp Hero, they
all stop on the street view at a pretty significant
distance away from the main center of the installation. Is
it the border of the state park? Like, is it
not a well to go into the state park at all? Well?

(43:01):
You can you go down a road? Because I did.
I went to a number of them. You go down
the road and then there's a gate and there's a
giant sign which you can't read because of Google has
fuzzed it out. But there's there's a gate, and then
I mean there's a number of smaller roads that look
like they feed in off of the edges, and I
went over to those, and every one of them it's

(43:23):
the same thing the Google truck stopped. It seems like
these gates, if it's a park, would be open to
drive down at some point, but Google never managed to
get in there. And every time they, i mean, they
fuzz out everything that is on there. You know how
you when you're in the street view, it does the
little window where you can zoom in on stuff. Like

(43:47):
let's say you're looking at a house and you want
to zoom on the house. When you look at that
entire area, that little zoom window is gone in the
street view. It's not until you do a one eighty
and you're looking away that it comes back. So it's
a little weird that you can't even zoom into any
of it, which would add a little creedence this theory

(44:08):
of well, maybe something still going on. Yeah, but think
about it. Is is um. If they've still got stuff
going on, then why go to the hassle of having
you know, like like guys sneaking around the woods with
guns when you can just keep it in your own possession,
not turn it over to the public, not have the
public walking around, and still have your fences and armed
guards saying, hey, military base, you can't come in, and

(44:29):
there's nothing suspicious about that, but you have to keep
You've got to do some kind of upkeep. And if
you give it to the state and say the state,
this is your park, you've got to maintain it. But
by the way, keep your little cretans out of this area,
and we'll just have a little contingent walking around patrolling
it to keep people away, because you know, people get

(44:49):
on foot and they wander around. They have no idea,
so they just they're they're scurrying all they're making sure
everybody scurries away from it. I guess my other thing
for the keeping a base would be exactly what you're
saying earlier with the populated area thing, where I think
you know, when they initially made camp hero Long Island
was not nearly as populated as as it is now,

(45:13):
So keeping something secret and operational as a publicized air
Force base is much harder. It would be like trying
to do something on the Air Force Base or I
guess it's the Air Force Reserve or whatever. That's you know,
down by the Portland Airport. You drive right past it
and it's kind of a secluded area. But if there

(45:34):
was weird stuff going on, people would know, just because
people kind of live around. So I got you know,
I guess there's some kind of I see both arguments that. Yeah,
I still think if you're that paramoid about secrecy, just
move out to the desert somewhere out west. But that's
the problem is that there's all kinds of installations that
were out in the middle of nowhere. We're built up,

(45:55):
you know about the here in Portland. Out on the east,
there's in Beaverton or west side in Beaverton. There's the
monkey Farm. You know about the monkey farm. There's the
monkey Farm. There's this place that is a primate facility,
and it is in the middle of Beaverton, which folks

(46:16):
who aren't from here don't know, is a very populated,
very urbanized area, and there's a lot of people driving
around and living in that area, and I worked on
a campus that was directly next to I mean property
lines intersected, and I'd be in the parking lot and
you could hear the monkeys. Its facility. I don't think

(46:37):
it is. It might be, but the point is they
built that thing a long time ago and kept adding
onto it. If they sunk a lot of money into
infrastructure to build this facility and they want it, let's
just say they're doing nefarious things because we would hear
monkeys yelling all the time, and then they're doing strange

(46:59):
things there. Well, you can't just pick that all up
and move because that's really expensive. So instead you just
say it's one thing while you do another. Yeah, you
can do that. But at the time they started this facility,
I mean I mean New York and like just just
north of there is Connecticut, another very populous place. It

(47:20):
was already very very densely populated, you know, back in
the forties. Yeah, whenever they started, so I mean, they
didn't have to invest a diamond it. They could have
just gone somewhere else. But it was also I remember
in reading they went there because he was right on
the coast, so it was easy to bring everything in
my boat loaded up and haul it however far you know,

(47:42):
a couple of miles at the most, onto the camp.
And so it's easy. Secret submarine. Yeah, your secret submarine.
Because frankly, I've I've looked the island over that end
of the island over fairly carefully, and I saw nothing
resembling wharves or dogs or anything like. So it's gonna
have to be the secret. I'm on board with that.

(48:03):
So that's the story of the month. This is this
is when we're actually gonna have to postpone solving this one.
I'm sure we have at least several listeners in New
York and so do not suggest something that is going
to get people arrested. Joe, look at the well, if
this is all true, it's not going to get him arrested.
It's going to get them shot. So get your asses

(48:26):
out there. Takes if you can, if you rent, rent
like rent like one of those little Caboda things, you know,
those diggers, you know, and like those little those little
earth mover things, and just do some digging out you
know what is actually a really huge fine digging up
state parks. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, pretty illegal, even just

(48:50):
like just digging in a state park. I mean, you know,
it's one thing. If like there is a secret base there,
it's a nut. I mean, even if there's not, it's
a pretty hepty fine. I would rather I would rather
have a crew of Larper's dress up as as g
One crew and go running through the park and see
if they can blend in and get into the site.
Then have them start digging up so that they if

(49:12):
they can see, they can find the first level of
the underground base. I want, I want, I just want
to see what the signs say, the Google signs that
are blurred out. I you know, I have a feeling
it's nothing nefarious. I think it's probably innocuous. You can't
drive past here, like no no ngicular traffic pass this point.
It looks like a lot of texts on it probably
says state park and here's a many many rules and yeah, yeah,

(49:35):
it's probably a giant rules all of our state parks
so like that, there's all kinds of sign in, tons
of tons of rules of I just want to know.
So what do you guys, what's your favorite thing that
might have might have happened to favorite the favorite theory
or what? Yeah, I guess I'm not willing to call
these theories necessarily just like suppositions, things that might have
happened there. What's your favorite thing that might have happened there?

(49:58):
I really do the guys that could make things materializing.
The guy makes the jetti pop out of nowhere and
it tears the place apart. Pretty good. That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah,
I okay. Are we going for favorite for fun or
favorite for believing? Well, let's do favorite for fun? Why not?
Very rarely do favorite for fun for favorite for fun?

(50:20):
I'm sorry, I'm Joe many to upend his It's okay.
I I kind of like the theory that that Al
and his buddy Mr Cameron had where they were lost
in time, because it makes me think there's been a
number of movies of military men from the forties who
go into the freezer cooler and wake up in the eighties. Yeah,

(50:43):
stuff like that. And he's he's saying that. I think
it's Al was saying that he had no recollection of
ever working at the Montauk project, and then people who
knew the project. I might be misremembering the person. It
might not be Owl. I can't remember that there was
somebody who said yeah, somebody who said they had no

(51:06):
memory of working at Montalk, and then people who worked
there were like, hey, totally righty nice, you know, I
don't know you until to the point that he got
really upset, and then suddenly the memories started coming. That
was the guy who said there were microchips in the brand?
Is that who said that? I don't remember his name,
but yeah, you see, I couldn't remember if it was
him or the guy who could make things materialized. I

(51:27):
think it was microchip dude. It might that might even
be the same person, because you remember then you know,
it's you're living a double life. It's pretty awesome on accident. Yeah,
it's it's kind of a neo situation that red pill
and the blue pill or both. You know, you just
took them both, so we're just going to mix them,
see what happens, Just you know, have fun. I think

(51:49):
it wouldn't it be a weird, weird way for the
movies to go the matrix if he was like, um,
I'll just take a both. I'll wake up inside the matrix,
but forget everything I ever knew. What about the so
much pill? Was it the red pill? Where he goes
down the rabbit hole. Yes, so yeah, what if he's
taken the blue pill, there's the end of the world. Yeah,

(52:13):
you know. The next hour and a half is him
in his office just you know, it's like he's going
about his business and he keeps running this, keeps running
into what's his name, Morpheus, and keeps running into Morpheus,
and Mors says, are you sure you sure you don't
want to take the red pill? Dude? Why are you
always trying to give me drugs? Are you trying to

(52:34):
get me fired? I gotta take a pee test tomorrow.
He's at the Starbucks to say. Morpheus sits down and say,
Jesus Christ. Uh, that's a movie that needs to be made.
I think this is awesome. I was just going to

(52:57):
say that my favorite theory is Nikola Tesla, but I
guess the X is more interesting. No, I like Tesla,
like as the director of operations. There yet of stuff.
I like the director. Yeah, the director of operations, Like
that was that's a very specific like they weren't like, hey,
he was in charge of the place. They're like this
was his job title. It was director of operations, not

(53:19):
not chief of operations, not CEO, right, not like CEO,
not like commander in operations or whatever you call yeah,
whatever you would do in the military. No, he was
the director of operations. It's a very specific title it is,
which makes me nope, operations which apparently facilities probably replies

(53:43):
to write or reports to. But I guess you know,
director of operations. That leads some credence, right, super plausible. Yeah,
I gotta be honest. Okay, I like the story. It's
a lot of fun. Can I now say what my
big problem with this project? I guess it is. I

(54:05):
think Joe, you might have mentioned this earlier, is this
story is a prime, prime candidate for people to just
chew on. And I think that this is yeah, and
this is what this is. This is the hard part.
It's like I kept reading it trying to find Okay,
we're some credible stuff. What what can I try and

(54:26):
track down it's really real instead of these fun anecdotal things.
And it's like watching you know, it's it's cracks and glass.
It just it just keeps spreading and you don't know
where it's going. It's confusing, and I think I think
for a lot of these stories, you don't know if
it's somebody and maybe I've said this before. In fact,
I'm sure I have. There's not people out there, people

(54:46):
with an impi sense of humor on the internet who
copy all this stuff over and then tack on a
few things like, oh, let's have somebody materialized stuff out
of thin air, you know, using this power of his mind,
and then that gets copied over by other people and
then well, there's a bunch of books that have been
written on this place. I tried to track them down
in my library, but unfortunately they don't stock them. Surprisingly,

(55:09):
but I was really disappointed because I wanted to try
and read some of this stuff to see where where
what sources because uh Al, when I was listening to him,
his sources were a friend in the government, a friend
that I know, a friend in the military, which is
just not a credible source, and it's really difficult to

(55:33):
to get a good handle on. Yeah, so that's kind
of why I attacked this story the way that I did,
which is probably the best way to do with this
whole Okay, there's this one kind of anecdotal thing that
you can't I mean, there's no hard evidence for any
of it, but at least there's some stories from it
seems different points of view, and whether that's just like

(55:54):
different people writing it or whatever, it seems that like
at least people are lying who substantiate the evidence or
the anecdotal evidence versus like one dude says, oh, yeah,
Aids was there, right, one dude says, oh, by the way,
men in black trained there. You know. I think that,
so I wanted to kind of focus on this stuff

(56:15):
that actually has at least a little substance to it,
even if it's not good science or good evidence. I
don't think any of this stuff has any substance. I
think that they're there have There has got to be
truth in some of this. I'm not saying what it is.
So let's say the people who got chased off by

(56:38):
men with guns, they were probably trespassing at night and
a park ranger came out and yelled at him and
they maybe we're a little inebriated or something, and they
saw he had a gun on his hip because he's
a ranger and they carry guns. A dude in a
gun in the dark chase just off. Like, I think

(57:01):
that that's how some of this starts. But really that's
my heart that's my biggest struggle is I think that
there's something here. I just can't pinpoint it because there's
just so much fluff around it, right, And I guess
that's the big question for me that I'm left wanting
is like, why did the government build this radar facility
that was like obviously about to be obsolete, right, I

(57:24):
mean they basically they built it and it was obsolete.
Why why even spend all this money at this site
to do this? Well, no, you gotta remember that a
there in the middle of the war. Be they move
slow and technology is cutting edge today, but it takes
us a year and a half to build this huge thing.

(57:45):
And in that time, oh, well, we've had a bunch
of scientists working and they figured out a better way
to do it. I guess I can see how that happened. Yeah,
that's the sort of project is like I was, I
was talking about that submarine. There's been a lot of
a lot of money on that particular project. You know
that there's all kinds of stuff like that where they
don't go into service because they get superseded right away
by something better. They still spend a ton of money

(58:07):
and building because it takes a long time to source.
And I mean today I can say I want to
build this, I can draw it on the computer. I
can send it to a vendor. A vendor can drop
that plan into a machine. The machine laser cuts it
out and boom, it's done. But fifty years ago, I
had to draw it all by hand. I had to

(58:29):
write out all my specs. The dude had to get it,
had to figure it out, had to had to teach
his guys how to cut it and how to file it.
And it took months to make that one part. That
one widget took so long to make that it's understandable
why these things, by the time they get a made
just are useless. Yeah, I guess that's fair. So that
I guess that would be my only kind of question

(58:51):
mark with this whole thing. But yeah, I mean, if
there is something there that that would point to one
obvious thing, which is the person who's the person and
parties who are creating all this gobbled ego around this thing,
and there's just an incomprehensible mishmash of tall tales surrounding
the thing. That party would have to be the government

(59:12):
men and blacker. Once you were doing it, yeah, right
to create confusion and chaos, fusion and basically negate credibility. Yeah. Yeah,
well that so the mere fact that this thing is
so ludicrous may actually is involved in it's Will Smith's fault.
It is, yeah, welcome to earth. Um, So, I guess

(59:34):
that's it. Always solve that one quick, but so links
or in pictures on the website. That website is Thinking
Sideways podcast dot com. You can listen to us there.
You can listen to this or other episodes there. You
probably have just finished listening to this episode somewhere, so

(59:58):
you didn't finish listening to it, so you're not been
hearing this at all, So if you don't listen to
it there, you can check us out on iTunes. If
you do check us out on iTunes, please leave a
comment and a rating. We really like getting those. I'm
liking all of the fallout references everyone's making. I appreciate that.

(01:00:21):
You can also stream us directly off Stitcher if you
forget to download before you head out into the wild
green yonder Um Long Island to do some dig. Yeah. Man.
You can check us out on Facebook. We have both
a page that you can like and a group you
can join. There's some interesting discussion that happens around there

(01:00:45):
from our devoted fans. Uh. And you can, you know,
if you do go out to like take a picture
of these signs, or you are Nicola Tesla, just send
us an email. The email address is thinking Sideways pod
cast at gmail dot com. We love to hear from you.
You know, as much as I want Nikola Tesla to

(01:01:06):
send us an email, I really feel bad for his
great grandchild who's going to have to show him how
to do that. Great Grandpa. This is how you click
the button to send the email. Yeah, he invented the Internet.
Probably he's actually Steve Jobs too. He was Steve Jobs,

(01:01:27):
fake Steve Jobs. Now he's gone, he's moving to the
next person. Yeah, so I guess that's it special request. Uh.
Any of our listeners that tend to go to military
surplus auctions, and I know there's at least some of
you out there. Keep your eyes peeled for a titanium
pyramid tall you can probably pick it up for tucks. Yeah, yeah,

(01:01:49):
keeping a good deal. Yeah, we'll buy it back from
you for twice what you paid for. Well, So, on
that note, I guess we're gonna head out of here. Um.
Thanks for a listening, guys, and don't forget to tune
in next week for our anniversary episode. Bye everybody dot.
Are you sure it's next week? You sure it wasn't

(01:02:11):
this week? I'm pretty sure it's this week. We missed it, guys,
unless the spacetime bubble burst. I think I think we're okay.
That's that's what it was the problem.