Thinking Sideways: The Salish Sea Feet

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories of things
we simply don't know the answer to. August two thousand seven,
A severed foot in a running she washes up. Wait wait,

(00:25):
don't you want to go through the whole high there?
This is thinking so yes? Okay, fine, al right, okay,
hi everyone, this is Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Devin,
joined as always by Steve and Joe. See that was easy.
It was fast. I didn't really need it, did we
Why are you talking so fast? I don't know if
you have a lot of sugar to This story just

(00:45):
kind of excites me, and I think I'm excited because
Joe always kind of solves mysteries. I think we can
actually solve this one. So I'm just like ready to go. Alright, alright,
let's have us do it. Okay, what are we doing.
Here's the facts. We're doing the severed feet of the
Salish Sea. Ah, so the mystery is a foot alright, alright,

(01:13):
so ready, yeah, I'm gonna go back into it, all right, Okay.
August two thousand and seven, A severed foot in a
running shoe washes up on the shore of a beach
in Canada. Since then, twelve more feet have been found.
The likelihood of finding two feet in the situation is
estimated at one in one million. Who who calculated those odds?

(01:34):
How exactly do you calculate? How you calculate those odds?
I think he's the wind pattern and the stars and
everything aligned, ocean patterns. Ocean pattern You probably just go
to the there's a web page, I have no doubt.
I've never seen it. You go out to made up
statistics dot com. You can go to that one. Now,
I think there's probably a webpage just to voted to
severed feet somewhere on the web. The numbers and now yeah, yeah,

(02:00):
So four of the feet have been identified as belonging
to two people, two separate people, but the rest of
them belonged to persons unknown, and the reasons for the
severed feet washing up has not been discovered. So they
were actually identifiably associated with named persons two of them. Well,
I'm sorry, four of the feet to two of the people. Yeah, okay,

(02:21):
And so what were the circumstances under which these people
drowned or we're okay, so we're gonna go for this one.
I think it's probably best to just go foot by foot.
There's so many puns in this episode. I'm so sorry.
We're just gonna go like one foot and the other
front of the other. Yeah, you know, the Journey of

(02:44):
a thousand miles and all that. Alright, So the first
foot was found by a girl who was visiting Canada
from the state of Washington on August two thousand and seven.
She was walking along the beach and she saw this
athletic shoe and it had a sock in it, and
she thought, I know, I'll look in that sock. I

(03:05):
don't know why she thought that. She regretted it didn't
she did. She was like, oh, maybe there's some stand
in here. Cool, I guess I don't know what in
your brain like you go, I don't I don't know
why I see. You know, I see a shoe on
the beach. I just thought of actually assumed that's a
severed limb of some sort in there and well anywhere.

(03:25):
So she opened up the sock and there was a
foot in there. Well, now there's probably like a like
an ankle. Yeah, I was, you're right, she saw an
ankle and she and was like, oh, they put two
and two together and assumed it was right. And you know,
eventually it was extracted and find whatever they figured out
was a human foot. They figured out it was a

(03:45):
human foot belonging to a man in the shoe was
a twelve. Okay, Well it was a kind of shoe
that was produced in two thousand three only and mainly
distributed in India, so it wasn't a major brand, okay.

(04:08):
I I thought that the first one that they found
was like a recognizable like Nike or Adidas. Yeah, that
it was Adida's. Yeah, I thought that too, but as
I got further into the research, it didn't actually mention that. Okay, okay,
it must be well, there's there's so many feet that
it's hard to keep them strange. Yeah. So, and that
one's a little bit of an anomaly because it does

(04:28):
initially it says that of an Adida's size twelve, but
then it goes on to say that it was just
a random kind of shoe. So I don't totally know,
and maybe other people can suss out more information in
my research, it wasn't Yeah, yeah, I wasn't positive you
this why I asked, Yeah, okay, okay, so we've got
this seize wave shoe. So one Okay. The second foot

(04:52):
was found on August two thousand and seven, which is
six days later in the grand scheme of things. That's
a pretty close time. Yeah, that is UM in two
thousand seven, so just six days later this time it
was discovered by a couple. Um. It was also the
foot of a man. It was water logged, and it
had signs of being brought to shore by an animal

(05:14):
instead of UM for currents or tides or whatever. Okay, yeah,
kind of animal, that's a good question. I don't know.
I would guess it was on the beach. Who do
you see running around on on the beach all the
time that picks up shoes dogs? Probably a dog, maybe
a dog or like a seal or something. Could have
been a seal or something. Yeah, slipper. So this kind

(05:39):
of shoe that they found on this foot had been
discontinued in two thousand and four. The third foot was
found on February eight, two eight. It was also a
man's foot, UM, also wearing a sneaker in a sock.
This kind of shoe was sold in Canada and the
US between February one and June two thousand three. Okay,

(05:59):
the more these dates will become important in a minute.
But yeah, I'm just as I'm running here, I'm like, Okay,
most of these shoes are about three or four years
old when they're found. Okay. Um. So the fourth foot
was found on May twenty twond two thousand eight. It
was a sock and a sneaker. This time the foot
belonged to a woman. However, the sneaker she was wearing

(06:22):
had been manufactured only in Okay, so even older. Okay,
this is getting weirder. Okay. So the fifth foot was
found on June six, two eight m. It was floating
in the water. It wasn't on the land because I
guess at this point people are looking for feet, you know. Okay, Okay,
I want to say something about that because that was

(06:45):
one of the funny things that I found when I
was doing the research. Is somebody said, well, it's crazy
that we're finding all of these severed feet, but people
are aware of it because the media has got ahold
of it. So now every time a person sees a
shoe flowing in the water, they weighed out and grab
it to see if it's got a foot in it.
So that's something I would necessarily do. I wouldn't either.

(07:06):
But I think, you know, it's kind of the when
you don't know that all these feet are being found
on the beach kind of where you are you think, oh, sneaker, Yeah,
you just it's a piece of trash, right, Yeah, I
probably walked past several severed feet in my lifetime and
you don't know. So this foot, through DNA testing, was

(07:27):
found to be the left foot of the third foot
that was found. So the third foot was a right foot,
so they were matching parents. There was a matching pair. Okay, yeah,
the joke in there somewhere. So the sixth foot was
found on August first, two thousand eight UM, and it
was covered in seaweeds. So again this kind of goes

(07:47):
back to the like people are kind of actively looking
for feet and yeah, you see a sneaker covered in
sneak seaweed and you're like, awesome, another foot, Yeah, another
severed foot. They were bit more to you because imagine
the number of people that that didn't turn into the
authorities and instead to come yeah for souvenirs. Yeah, that's
really disturbing, really disturbing. That's awful. Never to show me

(08:12):
your sneaker collection, please, actually let me get it. So
this one was a size eleven. It was a right foot, um,
and it was in a large black top shoe. I've
seen pictures of this. It's also a sneaker. It's like,
you know, like the air Jordans or whatever. It's a
high top kind of okay, And it contained bones and

(08:33):
human flesh. And this one was found in Washington State
in the United States, not Canada. This is the one
on August one. Yes, okay, al right, so this is
the first time they crossed the border. It's a long walk.
This show is the punniest. Sorry, I can't help myself.

(08:54):
So the seventh foot was found on November eleventh, two thight.
It was also found floating. It was also a woman foot,
and via d DNA testing, it was found to be
the mate of that fourth foot, the woman's first yeah okay, yeah, um.
So the eighth foot was found on October eighth, two
thousand nine, inside a running shoe. The ninth foot was

(09:16):
found on August, also in Washington State, and somehow it
was determined that the foot had been in water for
two months. It's been floating around for two months in
the water. Maybe it's like how much water, how water
logged it is, how much decomposition and stuff like that,
or nibbling by fishes. But so they actually made a

(09:38):
determination for the ninth foot, but they hadn't done it
for any of the previous feed Yeah, I don't know.
Maybe it's so it's getting a little This one also
is a little weird because size wise, they suggested this
foot was either like a small footed woman or a juvenile,
and it was. It was us a foot. It wasn't

(10:01):
found with a sneaker. Oh, so this was a barefoot
just floating along and floating in the water or on
the beach. It was on the beach, I believe. Yeah,
but it had been in the water previously, because we'll
get into this, but feet by themselves don't float very well, exactly.

(10:22):
They flowed a lot better when they have fluffy little
tennis shoes. Absolutely. So they sent this foot out for
DNA testing and the tests were inconclusive. Um. The tenth
foot was found on December five, also in Washington, but
in like Tacoma that's quite away really south compared to
are they've been finding most of these feet for for

(10:43):
anybody who doesn't know. So we were right on the
border of the state of Washington and Canada, and that's
where Seattle is essentially. And then and these things are
all happening right in that area for Seattle, and like
Vancouver b C. Yeah, kind of pretty close. And then
to go to Tacoma, our plus drive in a card

(11:07):
free was speed. So we're looking at sixty plus seventy
plus miles farther south. Yeah, that's quite a distance, which
makes me suspect that that one's a copycat. Maybe it
totally Maybe seven Get my foot in the news, Get
a foot in the door. Um So that foot was

(11:28):
also very small. Um it was found in a hiking boot. Uh.
And it was a boy's size six, So either like
a juvenile or a small adult. To give you to
size reference, that's the size that my foot is. People
that are not in the studio, you probably were. I
would say you were a men's six or seven. I
wear a women's six or seven, which is a boy's six. Okay. Well,

(11:52):
obviously I don't buy small shoes, which is a men's
like four. Okay. Anyway, A picture of never Mind foot
will be posted on the website, so that'll be good reference. Yes,
the eleventh foot was then discovered on August eleven. So
we're getting to like fairly recent four years this has

(12:14):
been happening. Okay, that this one had a bonus, Yeah,
I did have a bonus. The bonus was a lake bone, um,
and it was found to be floating in a marina.
So this one's, you know, again, kind of an anomaly pattern.
The twelfth foot was found November four, two eleven, however,

(12:36):
was identified as belonging to a local fisherman to the
area where this was found that had disappeared in seven
And where was that found? Yeah, it was found in
a lake nearby the sea. So this one is like total,
a total anomally. Yeah, this is not really they lump
it in. Yeah, so the lake and the river and everything.

(12:57):
It's close, okay, close, all right, I'm ruling that one
out of the list, but yeah, I agree. But thirteen
was found attached to a leg bone in a plastic
bag in Seattle, Washington, floating under a bridge, extra style
dexter style. Really, so that one another anomaly, and then

(13:21):
the one is also an anomaly, which they I don't
know why. Generally it's generally accepted that these are all
lumped in together. But I don't. I don't because it's
phenomena of feet. Yeah. Well, the thing is is that
there have been some feet appearing like on the east
coast in in Florida, things like that. They're not lumped

(13:44):
in with this case. It's just on the west coast.
But this one was found on September two thousand and
thirteen in San Francisco, California, which, like, I just feel
like if there is any connection between these feet, that
foot is not connected. Yeah, well, um, it could be.
But so was this one the one that was found

(14:04):
in San Francisco. Was it also in a running shoe? Yeah?
It was. Yeah. And then there's one more foot. Um.
It was found in July of two thousand eight um
and identified by DNA testing to have belonged to a
man who was suicidal, and there's been no further information
released due to the family's request. So that was that
you're presenting that with a little out of order just

(14:26):
because of the circumstances. Okay, So now that that you
confuse me when you jump back in time, I got,
I got so Okay, So let's let's be very clear
here that one has been identified to a real person
who people know. The other ones that have been identified
have not been identified to people, just that they match
each other. They've just been made it together, but we
don't know who. They don't know that they belong to. Okay,

(14:47):
So now, but the July foot that was found where
also in the sea. Okay, And it was like and
and presumably this guy jumped off a ship or he
jumped off a bridge. Yeah, was what the kind of
theory was. He was known to be suicidal out of respect,
he had his history, and he lived near one of

(15:07):
the bridge. There's a theory floating around were terrible people.
This is a bad one for that. There's a theory
floating around. But these feet may belong to um. There's
a lot of theories flitting around. One of them is
that there's a serial murderer that has a foot fetish.

(15:31):
What listen? Okay, so I guess the theory is like
this is sound kind of a little bit that they
it's Dexter style totally. They kill these people, They take
them out into the ocean, they cut off their feet
and then drop everything into the ocean to the sea,
and their feet float away and the body sink. And

(15:53):
that's why they're all because this person has been active
in this area area at this time. Okay, now, but
but this is easily provable because then the feet would
have been severed by a bone, so presumably so that
would be evidence. But if I'm wrong, and I don't
know if you're going to go into the decomposition process

(16:14):
that is happeningly, because that, I think is where that
part lose that piece of the puzzle. No, I don't.
I don't think the bone really decomposes the way flesh
does in water. Well, you're absolutely correct, and we'll get
into this in just a minute. I think this theory
is total bunk. Okay, yeah, serial killer stupid if there's

(16:36):
so many things that doesn't explain, especially one of the
things that doesn't explain is that if there is a
serial killer in this area and he's dumping a bunch
of bodies, there would be so many people that has
been reported missing, and they could have told they've DNA
tested all of these different shoes with all the different
feet that have the shoes on that and that would
be would have been a washing on shore. Absolutely, And

(16:57):
also if he had a foot fetish, wouldn't you think
he'd keep the I think so, Yeah, Yeah, that was
my other thing. I mean, he'd keep him a surprise,
not chuck him over last and free, you know. I mean,
on the other hand, maybe he had an anti foot fetish.
He felt the feet were hideous and unclean, so he
chopped them off and kept the rest of the corpse
for his collection. Yeah, and then threw them in the city.

(17:18):
But yeah, it's all it's not really incredible. Let's talk
about decomposition. He was talking about what happens because the
body is decaying and water. We're just talking about how
upsetting the term deep loving was right recently. This is
not as upsetting, but it's still pretty grows, still pretty gross.
So what happens is it just begins, I mean, to

(17:40):
decay right here in the water, and your flesh and
your muscles start to decay, but your bones don't really decay.
So what happens is your body starts to break apart
at the weak points. What are your weak points? Joints?
What's one of the weakest of the joints, your ankle,

(18:00):
especially if it's attached to a big floaty thing and
the weight of your body is dragging it out there. Yeah,
so that's the theory kind of where people are going
with why we've been discovering these feet. We I'm one
of the discoverers why these feet have kind of been
discovered and they were attached to like because you notice

(18:21):
that they're all athletic shoes, which would float most as
Oxfords for example, wouldn't probably most of them, you know,
there's Doc Doc Martin's probably we've got the bare foot.
We've got a foot and a hiking shoe. And I
don't know about you guys, but my hiking boots have
never been particularly seeming buoyant. Maybe they are. They might

(18:42):
be um, but there could be like an air pocket.
So that's kind of the theory as to why we're
finding these things. And so they float, okay, they float,
and the flat On top of that, you've got the
fact that it's estimated that body will pretty much stay

(19:03):
intact for about three years, um, you know, breaking off
at the week. That won't look too hot, it won't
look it's not gonna look good, but it's not going
to be crushed. It's still kind of identifiable. Not only
do bodies kind of resemble themselves for three years, but
it's estimated that a foot could float as far as

(19:25):
one thousand miles in the sea. And the thing is,
if I would think that it could go a lot
further potentially, But if you think about it, a foot
that is encased in a sock, in a shoe normally,
if it was exposed, let's no shoe, no sock, it's
got to start breaking down and all those little bones

(19:45):
are going to work their way out. The whole thing
is gonna tread apart. Whereas when it's stuck inside of
a container for lack of a better text, for the
most part, it's gonna be relatively in original condition. And
other than the fact that it's water loged't or hearts,
it's got bump, everything's still going to be stuck in there,

(20:08):
because if you think about it, unless you're wearing those
little athletics booty socks that for running socks, those are
what they are. Socks tend to come up just a
little bit above the ankle. So as soon as what's
above the ankle goes away, they close up and they
hold everything here, hold that freshness in any kind of

(20:37):
why I brought the stories so I thought they would
got it? Got it? Anyways? I really like this theory
to why we're finding a lot of these now, um,
and it kind of ties into why it's important that
we pay attention to the year that the shoes were manufactured.
And this theory is that these feet belong to victims

(21:01):
of the two thousand four Asians unami. Yeah, that's entirely possible,
So run that through for so here's the way that
that theory kind of works is none of these shoes
were manufactured past two thousand four. Uh. This is the
ones that were found prior, all of the ones that
were found up to about two thousand eight, right, because

(21:22):
after that they kind of just started getting scattered. Yeah, okay, Yeah,
the ones that I think I would qualify as a
viable core group, the core group, Yeah, they're not manufactured
after two four and they're all shoes that are make
and model that were sold in Asia, sold primarily in Asia.
And it would help explain the influx. Is if you

(21:46):
think these bodies were all kind of washed to see
at the same time, they kind of decompose at the
same rate. So there's a high instance of you know,
they all got caught up in the same current currence.
But this is a guess things sounds one of those
two things. Number One, I mean, did anybody run any
DNA analysis on these things to find out there they

(22:06):
belong to Thai mostly Thai people. I have no idea. Yeah,
that'd be worth finding why. I don't know that they
can find that specifically. I think when they run DNA
analysis they're looking for a match to put it against.
I don't know that they're going to the lens the ethnicity.
But actually, have you guys ever heard of the North

(22:27):
Pacific Drift? This rings a bell, but I can't think
of what it is. Yeah, it's a it's a major
Currently there's there's a there's a circular current that runs
around the Pacific basin, and so like it goes down
the west coast of North America and then turns goes
west across the ocean, and when it hits Aja, it
turns and goes north and then eventually it turns and

(22:48):
goes east again. And the circuit and yeah, and where
it hits and I can show you guys a picture
of it, But where it hits the west coast of
North America, it splits into two parts. One goes south,
one goes north towards Alaska. And they want to go
south towards San Francisco. Uh, and that spot is well
right about Vancouver Island. Fute it sound interesting. I think

(23:11):
it's that that's really interesting. Actually, I don't know why
I didn't come up with that. Seems like it would
be like a very helpful to this theory. Yeah, but
I'll show it to you after the the you know,
I really I'm gonna be honest if if I've got
to put in my two centses. So what I think
it is. I think that one of the few people

(23:32):
that's been identified the guy who committed suicide presumably from
having jumped from a bridge. What happens when a body
hits water and dies is they initially sink, Well, they
float for a little bit and then they sink. I mean,
that's why there's is it Tom Sawyer where they go

(23:53):
floating down and they're firing the cannon because the concussion
will shake the bodies lose because the body gets stuck
in the mud that's on the bottom of river. So
if there's a bridge in that area, almost every major
city has a major bridge that's notorious for people throwing
themselves off of So to me, it makes sense that
it's probably a bunch of people in the area that

(24:15):
at one point in a relatively small time frame, threw
themselves from the bridge, hit the bottom, got stuck in
the sentiment in the mock, and then again. And then
I go with the theory that the weak points are
what break off and this wasn't such a big deal
because shoes are now, as Joe put it, puffier and puffier,

(24:36):
so they got those bigger chunks on them that are
floating foams. That to me seems like the valid direct
the valid theory on this. I guess my problem with
that is the lack of finding any other body parts. Ever,
so I think, and then when you dive, you go
in head first, do you know at the I'm kidding

(24:58):
you know. I think the reason the tsunami theory is
my most viable theory is because that's a long distance
for something that doesn't float particularly well to travel. Whereas
if you got the buoyant shoe on you, it makes
more way more sense that you would travel that far,
Whereas if it's local bodies, you would think that more
bodies would have been identified but identified or you know,

(25:21):
the DNA testing or bodies flow, you know, showing up
someplace else, they do a lot of work and rivers
like that, it trudges. There are a lot of people
in major cities who nobody knows what happens to because
they just disappear. I mean, let's be honest. If if
I'm a street kid living in British Columbia and I've

(25:44):
got I decided that I've got nothing more and my
family doesn't know where I am, They're not going to
submit my DNA and that's going to be put into
a giant panther. Go, I don't know what happened to it. Yeah,
and I don't know. I mean, I'm to me. Okham's
razor to me says that's the simplest answer, which would
make the most sense. Great, I don't know. I don't

(26:05):
really know that that's even the simplest answer, though, listen,
only one fits just as well. Also, the possibilities that
the north specific drift. Again, It's like if a ship
had sunk or you know what with a lot of
people went down or something something like that, and all
you know, those all those people wanted being in the
water for months at a time, and you know, eventually
their stuff would be you know, parts of their bodies

(26:26):
to be washed ashore. I mean, there's all kinds of possible. Yeah,
there was a theory that there was a crash of
a small airplane that happened kind of outside of Vancouver
in the Pacific Ocean, and maybe the bodies there's like
four men who died and this thing maybe these were
those feet that belong to those men. But you know, again,

(26:47):
it seems like that's the sort of thing that you
could kind of test for well here because they would
have been families that were actively pursuing that sort of thing. Yeah,
I mean, it's it's possible. If you look at the currents,
it's possible for somebody that throw about to go down.
Somebody could like fall over words from his sailboat somewhere
off the coast of California, somebody who's wearing at least
one Nike stylish nake running shoes on his feet and

(27:10):
eventually wind up on the shores of British Columbia. I mean,
it could happen to drift, It could happen all over
the Pacific um. But what this tells me most of all, though,
is that say, if it was the tsunami or if
it was just random chance, like like shipwrecks and things
like that. There must be a hell of a lot
of floating feet in the Pacific because because the thing

(27:34):
about it is is like mostly the currents are going
to continue to carry your foot around and around and
around for a while. It's not gonna wash on shore.
It's just it's more probably more often than not, it's
not gonna it's gonna bypass British Columbia on the coast
and whatever just drift on by. So there's a lot
of feet out there. Well that I think again why
this tsunomy makes so much sense to me, because there's

(27:55):
a lot of bodies, massive amount of bodies. So for
the like you know, twelve or whatever, shoot exactly like
a tiny little percentage an explanation other than that doesn't
make as much sense to me. But you know, I
don't totally discredit Steve's theory either. I can see validity

(28:17):
in it. Just I have a hard time seeing a
foot in issue drift that far and still be intact.
But that's just me. But yeah, as far as bridge suicides,
and I probably usually somebody witnesses it and you know
they fished the body out and cut it away. Not
always but not always, but not always, that's not and

(28:38):
that's the other reason I go there. Yeah, that's fair.
That's kind of all our theories. Wow, that was a
short list. I blame Richard the third. Yeah, he's totally
totally guilty with him. So I guess if you have
theories of your own to add to our list, or

(29:00):
if you're missing a foot and you think one of
these might be your Yeah, if you can identify it,
you could send us an email at Thinking Sideways podcast
at gmail dot com. You are probably listening to us
on iTunes if you are, uh, if you would take
the time to give us a comment in a rating
or just one or the other, that's super helpful. It

(29:21):
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how shows go up the list, and that's how people
find them. Ye, which you know, that's what we're looking for.
Since you like us, we think you probably think other
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can also listen to us on our website, which is
Thinking sideways podcast dot com. There you can also leave
us a comment if you would like. That's a great

(29:43):
way to get in contact with us. Lots of people
have been doing this really great, we love it, give
a show ideas or yeah, great, fantastic. Yeah, so definitely
we try to get back to as many of those
as we can. But yeah, it's and and I do
want to say for anybody that put a comment up

(30:03):
and we didn't reply to it, it's not because we
didn't want to reply. But sometimes there's just so many
that we're trying to get ahold of that things fall
through the crack. I've been trying to go back through
the log of them to some but it's just it's
just difficult. That's why we need to hire an intern
or two. Yeah, for sure. Also find us on Facebook.

(30:24):
We're there. Give us a like. I don't know, it
might be fun. I don't really monitor do you do Facebook?
So I guess there's stuff going to put on Facebook.
I haven't looked at our Facebook. I'm in charge of
our other social made I guess, you know. I don't
think what. I haven't looked at Facebook for a while either.
I guess I should. Yeah, I'm in charge of the

(30:44):
other stuff. Yes, if you forget to download us for
whatever reason, if you just want to stream us, Stitcher
is a great way to do that. We are on there.
Just search us thinking site with podcast super easy stream
us right from your phone or your eye pad or
any mobile device, any mobile device. Really, I'm partial to
the Apple devices, but I understand not everybody is. So anyways,

(31:08):
thanks for listening to this what turned out to be
super short show but very punny. Oh god, yeah, you
give me those looks for making that joke. I should
have stopped with the first one. I feel like this
was like, thanks for tolerating us. So yeah, all right,

(31:30):
thanks guys, we'll talk to you soon. The shoes on
the other foot, now, isn't this from the guy who
always puts his foot in his mouth? You guys, we

(31:51):
have to stop. Really? Yeah, oh man, this thing was
Jessicain intraction. How about how about, like, know, don't criticize
a man until you've walked a mile in his his shoes.
I'll tell you floated a mile in his shoes. I
guess