Ep. 234 - Clobo's Timely Topical Takes!

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Big Food and Beyond with Cliff andBulbo. These guys are your favorites,
so light share, subscribe and raidit five story shot and range on Yesterday
and listening watching lim always keep itswatching And now your hosts, Cliff Berrickman

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and James Boobo Fay warn Cliff,what's going on? Man? Anything unusually
went on? Oh, I hada kind of a rough night. I
went to bed late, like reallylate, and then I'll sleep. I
was out cold, and we gota pretty good not a big nothing like
before, like not that big orwe had last year, but we had

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a pretty good I think it wasa four or five. I think they
said it was on an earthquake.Yeah, what time did it? What
time did it hit? I don'tknow. I think it was like three
fifteen, three thirty something like that. So in the middle of the night.
You must have been fast asleep atthe time. Oh yeah, I
was. I was out and thenI woke up and I was still.
I was looking at a seat thatwe had another one and before that one

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hit the I haven't noticed this like, I mean, I've noticed it a
couple of times, not like peoplealways say. But dude, the animals
were going nuts, dogs barking,the cat was scratching at the door.
And then I think about an hourand a half later, we had a
like I couldn't really sleep. Andthen we had another one and it was
I think smaller, but it wasstill pretty good sized one. And then
the animals kept going nuts. Ithought, shoot, we're gonna get a

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we make it a huge one.I got my my earthquakes preparedness kit is
my squatching kit, you know,like sleeping bags and pads and all that.
So I got that. I threwtogether a box of canned food and
stuff, like a couple of bigboxes of can food I put on the
upside on the back porch. Yeah, you live in the tsunami zone,

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man, I wouldn't want to beat your pad and if something like that
came up, oh yeah, becauseI mean I live on a one hundred
and twenty year old house on pierand post built on a sand dune.
So I mean people they don't knowif you're not from an earthquake country,
and most of people live in anearthquake country don't live on sand well,
a lot of people do. Butfor how many people are listening to this
around the country. Very few peoplehave lived in a house on sand in

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a heavy earthquake zone, and itmagnifies it so much more well, and
also brings out that the problem ofwhat is it liquidfaction. I think it's
called where you know, you shakethe sand really really good, and then
the water gets in between the sandgranules and it turns the whole thing into
basically quicksand yeah, yeah, andof course you're on top of a big
dune or whatever. I'm not sureif there's a bed rock underneath you or

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something, but yeah, I'm notsure your your property would be high enough
to avoid a tsunami. You know, if these are thirty or twenty or
thirty foot you know, waves comingin, you'd be toast. They did
every twenty five hundred a year flood, I mean the sunami event. For
the all the building permits out here. There is putting in, like the
big wind from the wind energy farmsgoing off short and I'll be built here

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right here in Humboldt day, likeright like half mile from my house literally
or a quarter mile actually, andthere's a big blue fin tuna farm going
and they approved that and they hadto get a lot of because Originally it
was a salmon farm. The Norwegianswere coming over and so that like they

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were so worried about, like youknow, gmo fish getting mixed in with
our wild supply. They had togo to all this stuff, and they
said, well, it's gotta beable to survive a tsunami, you know,
because I'd definitely wipe it out.So they did this twenty five hundred
and ten thousand and one hundred thousandyear float event or tsunami events, and
at the twenty five hundred year event, they showed the tsunami stopping eighteen inches

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from my back door. Oh,then you're perfectly safe our craft. Yeah,
like they had it all charted out. That's pretty funny. Well,
you know, I just looked upthe earthquake situation last night. It looks
like you had a four point eightat three twenty am. You had a
four point one at three point thirtyone am, so just eleven minutes later,

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and then about an hour and tenminutes there was another one outside of
dunsme or I don't know, itwas only three point five. I doubt
you felt that one. But thenwe go back to the coast again out
by Riodell. You had a threepoint one and then another three point one
at six oh four and then sevento fifteen am as well, all on
October sixteenth. I mean those arejust aftershocks, I'm sure, but still,

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yeah, they were mild. Imean they were mild, but it
got the animals going. That's whathad That's what had me so on edge
was I never heard them even whenwe had those huge quakes that the animals
were quiet. I mean, like, but last night they were loud,
and the animals like, you're nottalking about your neighbors. I assume no,
Well they're neighbors, they're neighbors.I mean I'm talking like domestic animals.
But I even heard like the shorebirds went off last night, which

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that's rare. I've heard it before, but it's it's rare. Well,
I'm glad you're okay if he donea walk around in the house yet to
see if he was damaged, becauseyou know, just your your house is
kind of damaged anyway, dude.It's yeah, it's that last big earthquake
definitely messed it up. More LikeI can barely open and close the front
door. You got to like pullit really hard and slam it a couple

(05:12):
of times, like try to getit all the way closed. Well,
I mean, I haven't been toyour house for probably like five or six
years now, but when I wasthere, that corner, the southwest corner
was kind of like being reclaimed bythe sand dunes. It seemed, you
know it is. Yeah, andI know that you have a woman's touch
there now. You didn't when Iwhen I watched them, I was there,
Creta had not moved in yet,but I would give a woman's touch

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there. And but there's nothing shecould do about that. She ruined it,
don't worry ruined it. In otherwords, it's nice and clean now
and livable. It doesn't got coolstuff everywhere. When you say that,
you know, the first thing thatcame to mind was that the cartman stuffed
animal, completely covered and engulfed inblack mold that you weren't going to throw

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out. So when you say coolstuff, you mean like garbage that you
couldn't even give to good will,right, yeah, yeah, that must
have been tough to admit. Bobohere, you're a good man. Thank
you. I just got interviewed bythe New York Times. Oh you did,
yeah, yeah, I was afew minutes late for the podcast because
of that, and then a quickemergency at work, real fast. But

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yeah, the New York Times calledme second time in a couple of weeks.
Actually they called me too. Theyoffered me twelve weeks of a dollar
a dollar a week. Oh no, this is this, Perhaps this is
different. They wanted to ask meabout bigfoot stuff. Okay, a couple
of weeks ago. I guess theyhave a children's magazine. They're doing an
article on that. And they askedme about the subject or whatever, and

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then I told them what they wantedto know today. It was, of
course a reaction from that Colorado trainhoax thing. Oh you know, very
typical sort of New York Times oractually any media stuff like okay, so
what are your thoughts on the video? And I told them, well,
it's a hoax. It's clearly asuit of some sort. And here's why,

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we don't know who did it.We don't know if it's the RV
compnyar of the train itself. Wejust don't know. But it doesn't really
matter in a way. It's thesuit. And then then they said,
well, why do you think thatthis the mystery of bigfoot indoors as well,
because they're actually there, you know, like the same reason that like
this people liking bears indoors, youknow, because they're actually there in one

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of those things. You know thatall the typical sort of questions. So
we'll see what they do. Theyshe did not record the interview. To
my knowledge, she didn't tell methat. So that's that's always a little
concerning. You got you got clip, you got to get to tell them
clippers, I'm going to record thisinterview. No. I know Matt Preuitt
does that so when when he's misquoted, he can just put it out there
and let let people know about it. But you know, I didn't have

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time basically didn't set anything up.But anyway, yeah, so who knows
what they'll do, because I'm sureI'll be misquoted somehow, Like God,
we had some We had this personfrom San Francisco in the museum a couple
of weeks ago who did an articlefor it, and she was just going
to sell the article, I guess, and she sold it eventually to like
Travel Portland or something like that,I believe, or will amn't we I

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can't remember what it was. Butand when it came out, it misquoted
Nico, the manager at the shop. It misquoted him in the article he
referred to Bigfoot as he And it'slike, oh gosh, that doesn't like
it. It doesn't make us lookgood at all. And clearly, I
mean obviously Nico didn't say that.It'd be like if you or me referred
to Bigfoot as he. He doesthis, it's ridiculous and it makes us

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look foolish. But like singular singularly, yeah, like it's an individual instead
of a species, you know.And so I don't know. I always
get nervous, especially doing these largermedia outlets like the New York Times or
whatever. It's like, oh,what are they gonna do? What they
how are they going to misquote?If hopefully they won't. I mean,
there are some really good journalists,don't get me wrong, But there are
also some journalists that, perhaps throughno fault of their own, just because

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they're unequainted with the subject, aremore than happy to propagate the myths on
accident. I try to put thefear in them by telling them at the
end, I'm like, well,did you record that by chance? Or
are you just going to paraphrase mywords. Then they'll use we respond and
I'm like, okay, well Idid record it. If you'd like me
to send you the file that way, They're like, oh, we better

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not misquote. Well whatever, I'lljust put it out there saying that,
Yeah, they has quoted me again, but I've done that a couple of
times over the years, So well, I guess they We're going to do
media articles things about possibly relating tothe Sasquatch phenomena. Yeah, kind of
a Clobo episode. Clobo, ofcourse, is our power name, you
know, like Brad Jelina or whatever. Clobo is the Cliff and Bobo power

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name, power couple name. Soit's just us today. We're talking about
news articles that we've either found ourselvesor you've sent us and brought to our
attention. And feel free if youwant to share news articles that you think
are important and perhaps we should talkabout. They don't necessarily have to directly
do with Bigfoot, but if wewould want them to tie it into Sasquatches
somehow, you can send it tous. You can send it to us.

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We couldn't be on podcast at gmaildot com or hey, Matt Pruit
is there a way that people canupload articles besides just copying a link or
something in the contact on our website, or is it just setting us a
link and just send a link toeither the contact form at Bigfoot and Beyond
podcast dot com or just send anemail to Bigfoot and Beyond Podcast at gmail
dot com. There you go.So that's today. We're going to be

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talking about some news articles that we'vebeen gathering. We do this kind of
as we go through the news feedsevery single day, and whenever there's something
good, Bobo and I or Matt, we kind of send it off to
Matt Pruitt and he puts it ina file. Then we get to talk
about it once a month, oronce every couple of months, or whenever
we darn will feel like it.It's our podcast, after all, it's
our podcast with the whole audience.Yeah, well yeah, it's it's all
of our podcasts. But we're callingthe shots and it's us that we're we're

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blabbing. So we're gonna jump intothat. So let's see what the articles
are today. Well, let's startwith one that grabbed my attention for sure.
It's that one. This one happensto be on futurism dot com,
but it was all over the newsmedia. It's rather important news. I
think it's very very interesting and definitelyhas something to do with bigfoots perhaps or
perhaps not. Scientists find structures frombefore home th Sapiens existed. So basically,

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a pre Homo sapien, a prehuman hominym was building something out of
wood, and I think that's kindof interesting. This happens to be from
Africa. They said it was aboutfour hundred and fifty five hundred thousand years
old in Zambia, and it's somesort of wood like wood structure. It

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was published in Nature Nature Journals,so the whole study can be found there
if you're interested. So basically,they found that these logs had been like
notched together, you know, likethey had been carved out so they would
fit together, kind of like legopieces or Lincoln logs if you're of my
age and you remember what those thingsare. And that's really interesting because you

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know, we didn't think that theywere doing these sort of things, or
at least there's been no evidence sofar. And of course the problem with
finding evidence of this kind of behavioris that you know, wood, rots,
rocks, that's why you have somany stone tools. You know,
these these stone axes, and andyou know these chipped away pieces of rock

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that they use for scraping tools andthings. Those don't rode away rocks,
you don't really get rid of,but would you do so? To find
wood of this age that shows evidenceof being manufactured and manipulated in order to
fit into one another is extraordinarily rare. We don't know how common this behavior
was, of course, because againthere's very little wood of this age.

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But in this particular case, theseuh, these pieces of wood were water
logged and so oxygen couldn't get atthem and start eating them away, or
the microfauna I guess, the microscopicanimals and whatever else in bacteria and all
that jazz couldn't get at the woodand eat it away because these were so
water logged and deprived of oxygen.So begs a question who did it?

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I don't know. Could have beenany number of species, But my question
is our bigfoots. Are Bigfoot's doingthis? I don't think so. I
don't think so at all. Well, listenings why I opposing thumbs most certainly
right, probably if it's from fivehundred thousand years ago, that's not that
that's really not that long ago.I see who would be the culprits here?

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You know, I think that's alittle late. I could be wrong.
I'd have to look up look upsome stuff right now, but it
might be a little late for Homohabilists. So we're probably talking about,
you know, Homorectus or something likethat. And they definitely had the thumbs
in order enable to do this.Yeah, I don't know did they?
Did they? Bobo? You readthis article too, and I start coming

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to you right now. I've gotthe article in front of me. I
can scan it real fast. ButI don't remember them suggesting who it might
have been? What kind of hominin? Do you not what I heard?
I heard someone on another interview sayingthey through and I remember they were talking
about Homo n Ladi also, wellNaldi was so it was so isolated.

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The only remains we have from thelady in South Africa, and this was
in Zambia. I think, yeah, yeah, that's not exactly though,
that this good distance away, butas possible, someone was saying that there
at that same timeframe. But Idon't think I think that's pretty unlikely,
but I did hear a guy saidthat they would have been alive at that
time, and blah blah blah.Yeah, and of course Homo sapiens.

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There's even a you know, Iwas thinking when I read this. Recently,
the timeline for Homo sapiens, ourown species, has been pushed back
pretty considerably. I think that theearliest Homo sapiens at this point are before
three hundred thousand years ago, andthat was pushed back pretty considerably just a
couple of years ago. It usedto be like two hundred thousand, but

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suddenly now it's over three hundred thousand. If these are four hundred and fifty
thousand years old or something like that, maybe maybe they're the earliest of Homo
sapiens. Or it could be somethinglike Heidelberginsa's you know, which is very
often like the most recent common ancestorbetween Sapiens Neanderthals. Yeah, yeah,
they were the predecessors to Neanderthals,last common ancestor there, so yeah,

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yeah, maybe those who knows,who knows, Yeah, because it is
pretty recent at the end of theday, five hundred thousand years ago.
It is pretty recent geologically, Butwhat does that really mean. It probably
means that these things were staying put, not as they're not moving around as
nomadic sort of tribes or something likethat, because building these structures took a
lot of time. They would needtools to build it, and you know,

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they're using rock tools essentially at thispoint, and so they maybe they
weren't as nomadic as the model suggestsat this point, which is interesting,
Which is interesting, and maybe that'sone of the reasons we don't see these
structures from sasquatches, because sasquatches seemto be moving around kind of like a
bear. They move around for allthe food sources and kind of have a

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roaming nomad and I want to saynomadic lifestyle because that suggests something but kind
of a roaming lifestyle in their territory, and so why would they need something
like this. Stay tuned for moreBigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will
be right back after these messages.I get asked this a lot in the

(16:15):
museum. Actually it's like where dothey live? Well, wherever they happen
to be. But in this case, these structures are suggesting that earlier hominins
or earliest homo sapiens. Don't know, maybe heidelbergenstis maybe erectus, who knows,
Maybe these actually lived at a placeat least maybe temporarily, maybe a
seasonally, don't really know, butit's new evidence, and now that this

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evidence needs to be incorporated into themodel of human evolution here and the behaviors,
which of course is why we callit a theory, you know,
the theory of evolution. It's notlike we're wondering if it happened. We're
just figuring out all the details.There's always some more knowledge to add.
You're talking about Heidelbergenstus. Did yousee that? Are the anthropologists of that

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reconstruction of the Heilobergainst's face. Youknow, when you look at Homo Heidelber
against his skull, it doesn't lookvery human. But yet that reconstruction that
was just put out recently, ifwe're talking about the same one, looked
awfully human. And we also don'tknow about hair covering either, So I
don't know that's one of these things, because there's some people out there that
are purported or at least suggested thatsat Neanderthals were completely covered in hair,

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you know, like a sasquatch andnot depicted like a human as they often
are. But yeah, the heidelberagainst is reconstruction. That one in particular
seemed awfully human to me, likemore than an anathoal. Yeah, and
of course Heidelbergast's has huge browridges.It doesn't look like a human skull.
So I thought that perhaps they didwhat a lot of bigfooters are, in

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my opinion, guilty of anthropomorphizing thespecies a little bit more than perhaps they
should, you know, turning theminto humans somehow, because they're clearly not
right. I don't know, butthere is a there's a the Smithsonians,
the Human Origins department at the Smithsonian. They have a pretty good representation of
it. That probably a little closer, but who knows, who cares.
We'll never get to see it withour own eyes, so it's all speculation.

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Well. The next article that we'regoing to look at is from Nature
dot com. The title is Ecologicalsocial Intrinsic factors affecting Wild Orangutans Curiosity Assessed
using a field experiment. Basically,what makes a what makes orangutans specifically a
rangutans in this one study, moreor less curious how they're able or willing

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to explore unusual stimuli in their environments. And of course this is a big
deal because everyone knows apes are intelligent, and everyone knows that intelligence brings about
curiosity. The more intelligent people are, the more curious they tend to be.
For example, you know, abouttheir environment, and then learning new
things and reading books and exploring theworld in general. Right, and clearly

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everybody who listens to us is wildlyintelligent, otherwise they wouldn't be bothering to
listen to what us two folks aresaying. But anyway, great apes that
they're very, very curious animals.But they wanted to see, well,
what affects this curiosity, what effectsthe orangutans wanting to come in and explore
things they've never seen before. Orangutansare widely thought to be the smartest,

(19:18):
most intelligent of the apes, sothat there are perfect species to kind of
poke at a little bit and seean experiment with in this way. So
basically what they found is that formost of the time, the orangutans were
really reluctant to touch anything new andunusual. But this is interesting, and

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this is where we can tie thisinto sasquatches, I think quite easily.
Compared to the adults, juvenile orangutansshowed higher tendencies, showed they're more willing
to explore and approach these novel itemsin their environments, but they were also
more likely to show signs of agitation. So basically the younger, well the

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juvenile orangutans would approach these things thatthese novel things that you know, that
were put out into the environment thatthey've never seen before. The juveniles were
more willing and able, and theyapproached these items of curiosity more often,
and after they did, they weremore agitated by them, Which is something

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that we've been speculating and hypothesizing aboutwith sasquatches for quite a long time,
is that the juveniles of the speciesare the ones who are more apt to
come in close to camp, tomake mistakes, to hassle you and harass
you out in the woods, basicallycoming in close because we're items of curiosity.
I believe that, Yeah, thisis one of these mythologies that's kind

(20:53):
of grown up in Bigfoot that everybodysays but there's very little evidence for.
But we all we all kind ofthink it's true. For some reason,
and well, here's some evidence thatthis is true in other ape species,
because we're always it seems to methat we're always kind of basing this assumption
of ours on human tendencies, becauseteenagers are more apt to do to go

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poking around at things they shul probablyshouldn't be poken around at all animals,
I'd say, that's true. Well, yeah, I don't know, but
it seems to me that we've boysin basing it on humans, like I
don't know if the dogs do.I have no idea, really, I've
really thought about it, but itseems to be true with ape species,
and I thought it was interesting thatthey get that that they get agitated by

(21:37):
them more often. So like theseyounger, younger members of the species will
come in like what is this thingand fool with it and touch it and
look at it real good, andthen real well, and then and then
they get pissed off about it.That might go a long way. Swarts
explaining a lot of this behavior we'reobserving in the woods, especially without a
sighting connected to it. You goout to a spot you're hanging out,

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goofing around, playing guitar in thedark or whatever. Just sitting in the
dark, or making some weird noises, playing slide whistle, something I've done
quite a few times, you know, throwing a rave in the woods,
like we did on finding Bigfoot.The younger individuals of the species are more
apt to come in for a closerlook, and then when they find out
what's going on to be upset aboutit. That kind of a jibs pretty

(22:21):
well with the behavior that we've beenobserving out there. Yeah. Absolutely.
Now, of course, the articledoes go on to say that the older
members like this, the you know, the the adult orangutans, they they
mostly just looked. They mostly lookedat the apparatus in this case, they

(22:41):
would put things out there like anapparatus out there they've never seen it,
would just observe it. But theywouldn't look as long either as the young
ones. Right, So what couldthat? Do? We see that in
sasquatch behavior as well, Like theadult sasquatches might stay further away and just
observe visually, like seen this beforethey come out here. They pop up
in those bottles, a bunch ofthem that start yelling, singing louder and

(23:02):
louder, and they all pass outcold. The sasquatches no, like the
older sasquatches, Like I've seen thisgig before. These guys come out here,
drink those bottles, get loud,then pass out cold, right right.
And of course something else said thatthe article said is that the availability
of food actually also affected their tendencyto observe or explore these situations as well.

(23:26):
So maybe if there's less or morefood, that could play a role
in sasquatches being willing or able tocome closer and observe. Yeah, I
think if they have a like that'show I said about Sasquatch are such efficient
feeders and eaters, and they're sohighly adapted with their whatever environment they're living
in. They have the recreational timethat they can go observe us that they

(23:47):
don't have to eat twenty you know, like they're not trying to eat sixteen
hours a day or whatever it is, Like they can probably they get an
elk kill, they can. Theydon't got to be much more gathering food
for a while, so they canthey can go watch humans or those us
or you know what I mean.Or if they're starving, like resources are
bad and tight, than they're goingto be more tempted to come in and

(24:07):
steal something out of a cooler ora hanging deer at a deer camp or
something. Yeah, easy food Ithink is a nice temptation for them.
But of course, you know,think about yeah, your perspective as a
sasquatch, if you are one listening, if you if you killed a deer
two days ago, you probably stillhave that deer to feed on, you
know, and you can you havesome leisure time. I suppose it's a

(24:29):
nice way to think of it,where you can observe these these weird humans
that come into your spot at adistance for a while and it won't really
affect your life, you know,because what mountain lions, I think,
if I remember right, they killa deer or an elk every week and
a half or something like that,every one or two weeks, and they
make a kill and then they eaton that, you know, for the
next couple of days or whatever.Sasquatches are probably something similar to that,

(24:52):
you know, if they if they'reable to take down a deer and elk
once every week or two and ofcourse they probably don't even need to because
I think a lot of their timeis spent foraging on other animal species as
well as the plants in the environment. I think that rodents are a large
percentage of sasquatch's diet whenever they're available, or raccoons for that matter, you
know, raccoons and skunks and possumsand that like that size animal I think

(25:18):
is very very often on the menu. It doesn't have to be a deer
and elk. I think deer andelk are preferred, but I don't think
it has to be them, SoI mean, how long I guess the
raccoons a daily thing probably. Ithink like sasquatches have thrown off those models
of because the herd, like wehave the world's biggest Roosevelt elk courage here
in humblet and del North for along I don't think it is now maybe,

(25:41):
but the herd up to like almostten thousand and now introduced to like
three thousand something less than four thousand, and they were saying it's because the
mountain lions were killing like for awhile, like the route right in the
core of the park, the mountainlions were killing like an elk every day
because there were so many black popthe black bears. They would even get
to eat. They would even getto finish one meal before they got driven

(26:03):
off of killed by a black bear. I kept telling those guys up there,
so you're not these are astounding levelsthat the mountain lions and bears are
responsible for. Kenny, I justcan't believe it. I'm like, you
guys are leaving out the biggest predatorof them, all the squatches, Like
you're not factoring in those those killsor them power scavenging off a mountain lion

(26:23):
or like that. I think that'swhy were your models off well. Yeah,
and also remember I think California hasprohibited the hunting of the mountain lions
maybe in general, I don't thinkin general. I think it's just with
dogs, no dog huntings since nineteenninety and the population's exploded, exploded,
yeah, which has driven down allof the praise species and cause a lot

(26:45):
of problems. I know here onmy property where I live, we get
mountain lions with a lot of frequency, you know. And last time I
haven't checked my cameras in about amonth, maybe five six weeks probably,
but we got I know that wehad a mountain lion walking down our road.
My neighbor got one on a trailcamera. That was at the end

(27:07):
of September, and I haven't checkedmy camera since. Who knows what they've
been, but they are around allthe time. My other neighbors who have
who have cougar tags, well they'llgo out and hunt these things and they'll
take care of it sometimes. Butstill, once that vacancy is there,
it's filled pretty quickly. There's alot of mountain lions around right now,
the whole country. Oh yeah,probably all throughout the country. Moneymaker is

(27:32):
going on about how the deer herdshave dropped significantly because the mountain lions are
not being able to be hunted withdogs and whatnots, and there's it's the
only effective way to get a mountainlion essentially, So those are very lucky,
of course. But one of myfavorite treats you, money Maker,
was one about this ponytail would confusethe mountain lick because they think he has

(27:52):
two necks. Did you say,what's that mean? He said that he
was talking about being pre pair andhiking in southern California. Is solo that
he said that that's one of thereasons, that's one of the reasons he
wore when this is when he hadlong hair. Is that he put it
a pointachell because would confuse the mountainlion? Huh okay? Well, anyway,

(28:14):
I thought this was an interesting article. I love learning about orangutan behaviors
because I think a lot of theirbehaviors reflect that at the sasquatch pretty closely.
Orangutans are very smart animals, veryvery smart apes, and clearly sasquatches
are probably pretty smart too, SoI find it useful to look into the

(28:36):
behaviors of the smartest of the apesto try to correlate them to sasquatch behaviors
that I may have observed down inthe field myself. So stay tuned for
more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff andBobo. Will be right back after these
messages, all right, so welook at the next one is the next

(29:00):
article comes from fizz dot org.That's phys dot org science website, and
the title of this article, andof course there's many many different versions of
this article out there from other sources, but the title of this one,
published on August twenty third is newancient ape from Turkey challenges the story of
human origins. Yeah, I thoughtthat was a little little misleading in some

(29:22):
ways. It actually just talks aboutthere's a new species of ape that they
discovered in the Turkey area that's abouteight point seven million years old, and
they think that this was a basicallyan early form of ape that eventually led
to the early hominins. But thisis a long time before. This is,
you know, eight point seven millionyears ago. You know. You

(29:45):
if the hominin line starts with ostralopithesenes, that's about six million years ago or
so. There's a couple of millionairesin between here. But the gist of
this article is that some people areso putting out there the hypothesizing that the
like ape species were very prevalent inEurope. We know that, but maybe
they started in Europe and diversified andthen later moved into Africa where the hominins

(30:10):
developed, you know. And sure, I guess that is human ancestor in
a sort of way. But Ithought that the title was a little misleading
in that sort of way, youknow, because hominins I kind of considered
the human ancestor thing to start aroundthe australopithescenes, you know, all that
stuff before Oreopithecus and all those otherslike, yeah, okay, they're ape

(30:30):
species and they gave rise to thehominins later. But you know, where's
the cut offline for human origins andall that sort of stuff, because we
can go back to worms and singlecell bacteria and stuff, and we're related
to them too. You know.In our recent members only episode, we
did the first installment of Clobo's BookClub, and I talked about the fantastic
book The Real Planet of the Apesby Professor David Began, who argues in

(30:53):
that book that apes evolved in Eurasia, that sort of origin point of apes
and the ancestors of modern apes.And as you see, Professor David Began
is one of the lead researchers onthis particular paper, in this particular find
and so I would encourage any listenersto read The Real Planet of the Apes,
a great book. Yeah, it'sin my library. It is a

(31:15):
great book. I've not read that, but I've heard it. Everyone has
read it, says you got toread it. Yeah, But back to
the article here, we live insuch a time that there's only five or
whatever species of apes out there thatare recognized, you know, the chimps
and Bonobo's and orangutans, gorillas,Am I missing one? I mean humans

(31:36):
obviously in sasquatches, but well,gibbons and sims are the lesser apes.
Yeah, yeah, they're the lesserapes. But at one time there were
hundreds of different species of apes onthe landscape. Hundreds of them existed,
many many hundreds actually, and weprobably only know a small fraction of those
that ever existed. And many ofthese were in Europe. We have fossils

(32:00):
of them from Europe. And theseguys are saying, yeah, maybe they
diversified there and then later traveled intoAfrica and giving rise to other species,
and including our own ancestors, thehominins in general, australopithesenes, et cetera.
But I think the takeaway here,or one of one of the takeaways
here, is that that say,land bridges, we want to call them

(32:22):
that. You know, land bridgesare a two way street essentially, So
people are always focused on, say, the migration out of Asia into North
America, but it went the otherway too, And in this case,
sure, the apes definitely lived inAfrica, but maybe that's not the origin,
and they later moved on to Eurasia. Maybe the other stuff was going

(32:43):
on in eur Asia and then movedinto Africa, made more changes, and
then left again. You know theseare these are revolving doors of migration,
these land bridges and opportunities to leaveone continents and go to the other.
It's not a one way street.Again, It's another exam sample of human
thinking being rather inflexible about the waythings are. You got to think bigger.

(33:06):
You got to try to think biggerthan you're able to and then see
what happens. It's fun. Ibet you know. For example, Matt,
maybe you know a broubble. Maybeyou know, but for some reason,
I think Matt would know. Whatare do you know animals that evolved
in North America and then later movedinto Asia. Horses evolved in North America
and made their way into Asia andthen had to be reintroduced into North America.

(33:29):
Horses, I think, and camelswere here at one time. I
know that that seems like a questionfor Nico. I'm calling Nico spatafora right
now. He's a manager of NABC, is a paleontologist. Hey, Nico,
you're on the air with Cliff andBobo and Matt on a big fan
and beyond right now. All right, So I just called the North American
Bigfoot Center. And this is Nicospatafora. He's a good friend of mine.

(33:51):
He's the manager of the NABC andhe is a paleontologist. He does
guest spots at AMZI. He's adinosaur nerd in general. And so we've
got a question. Ico. WeBobo and Matt are on the line with
me. You can't hear them becauseI've got headphones on. But at the
moment, we're talking about an articletalking was mentioning a new species of ape

(34:12):
was discovered in Eurasia and talking aboutthe possibility how apes may have developed in
Eurasia and then later moved to Africa, giving rise to hominins. Then later
they dispersed from there. So ourquestion for you, and I think you're
uniquely qualified to answer this, andif not, we'll just cut it all
out because we have editors. Butwe were wondering about different species that may
have arisen in North America and thenlater traveled across the land bridge into Asia,

(34:38):
because we so often think of theanimals coming from Asia into North America.
But land bridges are two way streets. So what do you know about
animals that actually evolved in North Americaand then later dispersed into Asia. Two
of the most famous animals that,like most people don't realize because there's no

(34:59):
endemic species of the anymore that evolvedin North America are horses and camels.
Camels originated here in North America aswell as horses and migrated over land bridges
into Asia and Africa and Europe andstuff like that, and then eventually they
ended up dying out in the lastextinctions. So there's no more camels and

(35:21):
horses that are endemic to North Americaanymore, but there are fossils of animal
of those animals that used to behere. All right, very cool.
Any other any other big, gloriousanimals you want to share with us before
we let you go. That's atough question. Well, fair enough,
that's why we have an editor,So I'll let you go then. All
right, Thank you very much,Nico. We appreciate you coming on and
have a good day at work.Man, talkt to you soon, okay,

(35:43):
bye bye, Okay. So thereyou have it, straight from the
extinct horse expert's mouth. Yeah,Nico's about Apora, manager of the NABC
and paleontology nerd extraordinary. He knowshis stuff, so yeah, we appreciate
him. Coming on, should wego to the next article? Humans,
humans get louder, Monkeys mark moreterritory. Brazil's pied Tamarin monkeys use scent

(36:06):
marking and vocal calls to communicate,but it's getting more difficult for them to
hear one another. It's too loudor too old. Yeah, so what
are they doing? What are theydoing instead of this more scent markings?
Yeah, noise pollution has cause themto use scent markings to communicate so they
can compensate for the noise. Takingaway with that aspect of it. Yeah,

(36:27):
So all primates, even these littleguys or is it a tarsier,
oh, tamarin monkeys. They arecute little guys to you, aren't they
big time? Yeah? But anyway, all primates are vocal in nature.
You know, they vocalize to oneanother for a variety of reasons, even
these little folks, even the biggestof them all sasquatches, or likely biggest

(36:49):
of them all sasquatches. But ashumans have been encroaching upon their habitat in
this various areas, these tamarins havebeen relying less on their vocal communication and
going to scent markings instead. Alot of monkeys have very acute senses of
smell, and they can they communicatein the same way. There's like dogs.

(37:10):
Do you know when you take adog out for a walk. I'm
assuming everybody knows this, maybe youdon't. When you take a dog out
for the walk or something, andit's smelling, smelling the road where ether
our dogs have peed or whatever,they're actually communicating to one another. They're
communicating I have been here, andeven sometimes this is the direction I'm traveling,
this is my mood at the time. Dogs can smell. I mean,

(37:32):
as weird as it sounds, dogscan smell time. They can smell
how long it's been since the doghas moved there, that moved through the
area. There is so much informationit packed into the sense of smell of
various animals. Dogs are a greatexample, of course, because you have
such an amazing sense of smell,and that this would those go to bears,
that sort of thing. There's somuch more there than humans think.

(37:57):
Because we're not old factorially oriented forthe most part, we've also domesticated our
sense of smell quite a bit.There therefore dulled it from our natural state.
That could have been an adaptation justfor us getting in larger and larger
groups, because like people smell likeI mean, there must have smelled like
hell back then. You know allthat bo and you probably generate some There's

(38:20):
some information in there too, though, and even nowadays, you know,
like you live in Humble, youknow, if you can line at the
whole foods or whatever behind a hippie, you know it before you see them.
Yeah. Yeah, there's information insmell now, but so much more
information the more acute your sense ofsmell is. I think, I mean,
I think we domesticated and moving intolarger and larger groups. I'll butt
that i'd something that you're dull init, so you're not like you're not

(38:42):
like getting like God, this guysmells just I mean, it still happens,
but it's not as bad, youknow what I mean, Like if
we had if we if we werelike well, dogs like to stick their
nose and pooh and stuff, andif we had nose like that, we
were like sensitive to human bo andbad breath and like people that don't wipe
properly or whatever, like, youknow, make it for a much more
violent culture perhaps, but we aresensitive to that. Otherwise, you know,

(39:07):
you wouldn't be saying these things rightnow. We are sensitive to that.
But I'm saying like we're sensitive.Just mentioned if our olfactory's senses were
like forty times more, eighty timesmore or whatever, like a three hundred
times like a dog, like,we'd be like you wouldn't want to be
within twenty feet of somebody. Someanthropologists listening to this, he's going to
go, that's brilliant and do abig have as PhD students work on it.

(39:28):
Yeah, and give Bobo, youknow, authorship credit. Yeah,
that's a smart thing to do.I have it in my head and I
don't know if this is accurate,But that also has something to do with
being visually acute, you know,like you we're so visually oriented. Maybe
that takes up space in the brainor something like that, but I don't
know that to be true. Butanyway, where where we obviously don't have

(39:51):
the the anatomy basically for smelling otherthings really really well, you know,
and deer and bear and those sortof animals that rely so heavily on their
sense of smell, have elongated snoutsto increase the surface area for you know,
the old factory nerves basically, andhumans don't have that. None of

(40:13):
the apes have that, oddly enough, and the monkeys do to a much
lesser degree. But in this case, back to the article thing, these
particular monkeys are no longer relying ontheir sense of hearing as much because humans
are getting in the way. They'rerelying on their sense of smell. But
now I'm not saying sasquatches are relyingon their sense of smell per se,

(40:34):
although they have a better sense ofsmell than we do, because because they
haven't domesticated themselves and dulled their senseslike we have. You know, they're
still living in the natural environments.They don't eat super sour candies and all
that other thing that, you know, take away the subtleties of your senses
in a lot of ways, butsasquatches absolutely And by the way, I

(40:58):
think I'm the one that submitted thisarticle because one of the things I saw
that came to my mind immediately uponreading this article is that sasquatches, just
like these monkeys, adapt to humanpresence in various ways. These monkeys.
They shifted from being old fact Imean, sorry, auditory in nature towards

(41:19):
being old factory, old factorially oriented. I don't know, you know what
I'm trying to say, set afocus on hearing to communicate, their communicating
by smell. Now, sasquatches alsodo this in various ways. I often
say that the sasquatches that are closerto town vocalized less. They're they're much
more ninja, like what sort ofthings have you seen? Bobs? Because

(41:40):
you know in Trinidad we're all sortsof houses. There's bigfoots wandering around out
in Blue Lake. They're sasquatches notfar away. How do those sasquatches behaviors
differ than the ones that you seelike way out in the Siskews, for
example. I've gotten so few reportsof vocalizations from anywhere around Trinidad I've gotten

(42:04):
I do get some from Blue Lake. I mean Field Brook, which is
between Blue Lake and Trinidad. It'sa little like you know, it's just
it's a it's a community, butthere's just like a store in a post
office and fire station in school.It's not like a town. But yeah,
there's I do get vocalizations out ofthere. But then yeah, you
don't. You don't hear much nearthe towns at all, like you I,

(42:25):
you know, for all the forhow many people live right outside of
town, you know, like humanexposure like for better lack of better words,
man hours of like people being ina position to hear versus like out
you know, going an hour intothe mountains. It's the reports are so
much higher frount the mountains and there'sso fewer people. It just tells you

(42:46):
that there's obviously a lot more vocalizationgoing on. Yeah, you know there
There have been sasquatches on or nearmy property a couple of times over the
last five or six years that I'velived here, and I've never heard of
vocalization from here. Melissa did.Melissa heard one once. She heard a
whoop, like whoop, just likeI do, you know, on the

(43:07):
show or whatever. She heard oneof those. But I was out of
town at the time and it camefrom up on the hill on the other
side of the spring there. Wegot a couple are but the stuff that
we've heard so far. I didhear one vocalization in that November, right
after I moved in and it soundedlike that was it. Melissa heard that

(43:27):
whoop. And other than that,all the other stuff we've heard are like
bangs and knocks and that sort ofthing, you know, the more subtler
things. And I think that's kindof how they roll when they're close to
town. Not that I live closeto town necessarily, but you know,
my little valley here that I livein is pretty secluded in a lot of
ways. Well relatively, you're closeto town relatively, yeah, absolutely,

(43:51):
But that that ridge, I thinkthey're moving up and down the ridge on
the other side of the river.There goes all the way down from the
bull Run area all the way upinto Pass Zigzag up to Rhododendron. I've
gotten reports from pretty much everywhere allup and down that one ridge, So
I think that's what they're doing.But these these animals, and these are
probably the ones that inside bull Run. I'm thinking inside bull Run Watershed because

(44:14):
I just I don't live very farfrom bull Run Watershed. These animals have
kind of learned to navigate around thehuman populace in a way that makes them
not not run into very often.There's a handful of siding reports and a
couple other couple of noise events,but relatively speaking, the noise events are
kind of few and far between.Considering that I know that we have a

(44:38):
resident group of sasquatches around here,you think you'd be hearing them like once
a month or once every couple months, and it's just not the case.
Like you might hear one or here'syou know, reports of whoops or something
coming in to the museum from theridge like once or twice a year maybe.
But then again, it's not likethey yell a mile from here and

(44:58):
everybody hears it either. There's alot of river noise and stuff too blocking
it, so who knows. Butin places where the sasquatches are moving through
and you know, stealing a coupleof handful handfuls of dog food from the
back porch, they're not going togive themselves away, so they obviously change
their behaviors significantly around humans, justlike these tamer and monkeys have done.

(45:20):
You know what's interesting is that thosetamer munkeys were talking about down in Brazil,
they're critically endangered because they have sucha small area of their territory and
it's it's almost all that lies thecity limits of Manaos where we filmed Finding
Bigfoot our Amazon episode. Like whenyou see if you're watching the episodes where
we get picked up by the bigriverboats that pull up into the city we

(45:42):
were in, that was that wasright there. Those are Those were the
monkeys we had around the hotel.That's great, that's great. That was
a great trip too. I reallyenjoyed that one. Stay tuned for more
Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages.

(46:05):
Manao's great town. What happened tothat guy? You ever hear from
that guy who like almost marrying oneof the local people, Oh, Jeremy,
Jeremy, that was Yeah, hewas. He was a madman.
That guy was the best. Thatguy was freaking wild. He's the wildest
dude I ever met through the courseof the show though all the filming all
around the world, he was thewildest dude by far. Oh yeah,
I'm not saying something. I don'tthink we've mentioned this on the show,

(46:29):
but you guys know that David Oranpassed away last month, right? Oh
I heard that actually now that youmention it, Yeah, yeah, David
Oran is he's the ornithologist that andyou know it's not just because of his
name either. That we met within Brazil who had a great interest in
the map guada. Oh yeah,yeah, he thought he thinks these things
are giant ground slaws. And Iguess it's possible, because we did get

(46:52):
reports of two different forms of mapenguadi, and one of them conforms very
nicely to the giant ground sloth.The other one is clearly assass watches some
sort of by the way. Butyeah, he passed away like a month
or two ago. I forgot aboutthat. Yeah, Lauren Coleman put out
his I think his obituary. Ifremember right, Lauren qutes something all that

(47:12):
would I wouldn't know almost any ofthat sort of Lauren and post it.
Yeah yeah, And I wonder ifhe's written his own yet. I think
he did. Actually, I thinkI talked to him about that, because
I said, it's kind of agrim responsibility that he's taken upon himself to
write all these cryptosological obituaries. Itdoes a good job. Yeah, I

(47:32):
just looked it up here. DavidDoctor David Orrin died on September seven,
twenty twenty three. Rest in peace, David. He was a good guy,
nice guy didn't really have time forthe idea that mapping guadis might be
sasquatches at all. He can't evenwrap his mind around it. No,
no, but you know he didtake those citing reports that all kind of

(47:53):
pointed at the sloth. So,yeah, it wasn't the giant slot.
There was the medium sized slot.I've heard the there's the mega one,
the giant one, and there's thesmall one that's like the size of a
grizzly bear. And certainly Brazil isa place in a good place to hide
some giant mamma like that. Soyeah, yeah, I think I think
there was both there. I'm convinced. So there's a there's some type of

(48:15):
pominade, you know whatever, somesasquatch type bipedal primate. But I think
there could be room for both ofthem. You know, they're probably low
numbers, especially the sloths so much. I mean, they're they're slower,
they're they're not as camoed as theI mean, there's there's just way more
likely to get shot than a thana mare. Right. Well, you

(48:39):
know, we took reports from people, and some of the reports, yeah,
this big thing with claws and ithad canines and scary monster looking thing,
and then other people said, yeah, it was like a monkey but
without a tail, walking on twolegs the size of a person. Yeah,
so you go, yeah, clearlythere's two things going on down there,
and there's more than that. Forroom too had the word mapping.

(49:00):
Guadi gets associated with both. Iwish they had a different name from them
for them, but I guess theydon't. So all right. Well,
there you go, a meandering conversationabout a variety of news items that have
come in the last couple of weeksor a month or something like that.
I hope you listeners are enjoying this. If you do love it, let
us know. If you hate it, tell us but with nice words,

(49:20):
please, And you can you canemail us at Big put of You on
podcast at gmail dot com and tellus what your thoughts are. Or if
you have an article that you thinkthat Klobo should be talking about, please
send it to us. We enjoybringing you guys and your submissions into the
show. It makes it a littlebit more interactive for us, and it
reminds me that there's actually people listening, because you know, I'm looking at

(49:43):
a computer screen talking to a microphonewith my friends Bobo and Matt in my
ears, and it's a nice reminderthat there's seventy thousand people listening right now.
So all right, I guess that'sit. Well, then we're going
to be onto the members section.That's for our Patreon supporters or we got
some kind of fun topics to goover on this one. So yeah,

(50:04):
if you're interested, it's five bucksa month. You get an next episode
every week. We even bringing thatproved on so it's even more of a
high IQ event. So until nextweek, we'll see you here and tell
your friends and finally listen, hitfive stars in the review, give us
a few kind words. We appreciateit, and until next week, y'all
keep it squatchy. Thanks for listeningto this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.

(50:34):
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