Ep. 249 - Q&A - February, 2024

(00:02):
Big Food and beyond with Cliff andBobo. These guys are your favorites,
so like to subscribe and raid it. I'm stay shot and me range just
on yesterday and listening, oh watchinglimb always keep its watching. And now

(00:27):
your hosts Cliff Berrickman and James BuboFay Cliff, what's happening Man? Just
same old, same old, sameold, same old. Yeah, what
is the day in the life ofBobo? Good question, Thank you.
Tomorrow, gonna go meet my buddyup there in Fieldbrook where that sighting was.
He's back in town. We're gonnago up there and look and see

(00:47):
what we can finally spend like threeweeks now. But it's just been dumping
rain and like heavy winds and likeit's gonna be pretty messed up and it's
not the best substraight for getting Prince. We'll see what we can fine,
right right, Well, you know, Dana, life for Cliff as I
wake up at seven thirty or eightand get ready for work, come to
work, work all day, doa podcast. At the end of the

(01:08):
day, get home at seven oreight, hang out, have dinner,
go to bed. But great thingsare happening. I mean we're getting ready
for the Sportsman Show. Yeah,we're gonna have a booth there. Can
you imagine all the stories we're gonnaget and all the heckling too. Oh
yeah, it should be a lotof fun. I'm trying to get all
my comebacks ready. Sixty thousand peoplego through the doors over those you know,

(01:30):
four days of the show or fivedays of the show Wednesday through Sunday
at the I don't even know whereit is, the Portland you know,
convention Center, Expo or whatever it'scalled. Downtown. There should be a
lot of fun though, bringing abunch of exhibits in. We're bringing a
bunch of footprint casts, obviously,and I ran off two hundred and fifty
report forms. I don't know howmany people are going to share their reports
with us, but I bet it'sgoing to be quite a few. Who

(01:53):
knows what other kind of stuff's goingto come our way, possibly a collection
or two, like, oh,my dad was really into big Foot.
He had a newspaper clippings, youknow, something like that. That's what
I'm hoping for. And of course, you know, we'll sell some stuff.
I guess at the end of theday, it'd be kind of like
a Bigfoot convention, I guess,with having some stuff out in front of
me and making some money for theshop. But really the goal of this

(02:13):
is to get people into the museum, you know. So we'll bring in
like two or three thousand flyers tohand out, and we've never done this
before, so it's going to bean interesting experiment. My worst fear is
that maybe we sell everything like byThursday, and then Friday, Saturday,
Sunday we don't have anything. Idon't know that could happen. It could

(02:34):
happen. Yeah, I just feellike I'm going into this like ill equipped.
I'm a little nervous about it,to be honest with you, right,
but I'm looking forward to it.It's going to be a lot of
fun, of course, meeting alot of good people and hearing tons of
stories, I imagine, And reallywhen it's over, I get a few
weeks of not having any other outsideobligations except for the museum. So looking
forward to that, because you knowwhat, apple trees need pruning at this

(02:57):
point, like, there's a lotof stuff on the property I need to
deal with, and Bigfoot has beengetting in the way, as it often
does. Squashes don't just snap thebranches off for you when they're picking apples.
I'm hoping, but you know,at this point, no, no,
If I could have a troop ofsasquatches coming through and actually break all
the branches on top of the appletrees and cut it down to size every
year, I would be thrilled,be happy to give them all the apples

(03:19):
they want, like they can't takeit anyway though, you know, right,
but anyway, doing a fun podcastright now, because it is the
Q and A episode and Bigfoot andBeyond right now, which is the one
I look forward to the most everysingle month. Yeah, I love it
because it gives a chance to interactwith our audience, and we love,
we love ourselves a good audience,and you know we have a great one.
And all these questions that will beanswering will be from you, our

(03:43):
listeners. You are submitting them.You are either writing them in or you're
actually submitting voicemails so you can hearyour own melodious voice. I said,
melodius, not malodorous, by theway, voice on the air talking to
us. So yeah, I lovethese episodes and it's kind of fun to
hear the voice of the people whoare listening. Yeah, let's do it
all right, Prouve, what doyou got for us, hay Cliff,

(04:04):
Hey Boobo. My name is Adamand I'm from Staffords Are, England.
Let us have one quick question.When witness use report that the footprints just
seem to have ended and there wasno sign of the sasquatch, do you
think they just don't look up andthink about the possibility of them climbing trees
or enging a body of water.Do you think that could explain a lot
of the paranormal side that people reportof Sasquatch. Yeah, I'll probably explain

(04:28):
almost all of it, but butnot every single case, because I've talked
a few that have followed them onbeaches and it just ends and there's nothing
like within fifty feet there's been There'snot a lot of cases like that.
I mean almost all them are justI think people just there. I think
they can jump. They could.I mean people have seen them broad jump
just from standing on two feet andjust without taking a step, jump like

(04:50):
twenty two, twenty three, twentyfour feet. They can, you know,
just like the top humans can dolike eleven feet or something like that.
So I mean, they can atleast twice as far as we can
from a standstill, and they can. I've heard enough stories of them jumping
up into trees, and I'm surethat it counts for some, but some
of me like it's perplexing, likethe way some of those disappeared for like,

(05:14):
you know, professional trackers and stuff. But I think it's just that
they're really really good at not leavingprince and covering their escape routs and such.
Yeah, I think the vast majorityof those cases, it's a human
thing. Like the people just aren'tgood trackers, you know, because I've
tracked Sasquatches a fair number of times, and I'm not don't. I don't
pretend to be a good tracker byany stretch of the imagination. I'm I'm

(05:34):
a hobbyist. I enjoy it,but I'm not great at it by any
means, and I lose their trailsall the time. I mean, just
thinking back to the last week whenI was tracking that one up by Welch's
in Oregon. Here, I wouldfind three or four prints in a row,
maybe two or three prints in arow, and then I'd lose it
for ten or twenty yards or moreand then pick it up and get maybe

(05:55):
one or maybe two or three more, and then I'd lose it again.
Then there came a point where Icould not backtrack it or track it further
from where I found it. Thenthat's just completely lost it. And you
know, and if I have tolook at that situation, I think it's
the lazy way out to say,oh, it just disappeared, or it
flew in the sky, or itwent through a portal, it demateialized.

(06:16):
That's lazy thinking. I think thatin my opinion. I know it sounds
really harsh, but I don't care. I think it is. I think
such a judgment deserves a little bitof harsh criticism. In that case,
the fact is that I'm not agood enough tracker to track it. You
know, these things live in placesthat are not easy to follow. Trailing
is a fact. And yeah,they might be going in trees, but

(06:39):
where I lost the trail for thesethere were no trees to go up into,
you know, I mean, reasonablyspeaking, I guess they could have
jumped fifteen feet to his side andon this alder tree and grabbed onto it
and jumped from tree to tree totree to tree, you know, which,
of course, brings to mind theidea of the splinter cat. If
you know what the splinter cat is, if you don't check it out,
I think it's a SaaS watch legendpersonally. But fact is, I just

(07:01):
lost a trail. You know,humans are extraordinarily fallible, and tracking is
an art, and it's very easyto lose the trail of these things,
especially since sasquatches have large, soft, padded feet. I've said it kind
of a lot lately, but these, the John Green books and all these

(07:21):
other books, like the early books, have skewed our perception of what footprints
look like in the ground. Theyare not deep and unambiguous and clear.
Hardly ever, they're barely ever likethat. Most of them are very subtle,
where you see leaf litter shoved outof the way, or you see
some ferns or grass pressed into theground, you know, and there's these

(07:45):
subtle, subtle, subtle signs asOh, but the sasquatches are so heavy
they would be no, no,no, no, forget all that.
Get rid of all that stuff inyour head. Don't take those presumptions to
bed with you like they just leavethose aside. Start with a blank slate
and then learn about what is actuallythere instead of what you think should be

(08:05):
there. So I'm gonna says it'shuman fault. Humans are not generally good
trackers, and the beach thing,I don't know. I also don't believe
a lot of people when they say, oh, just went in the middle
of nowhere and disappeared, and thereforethe Bigfoots are paranormal. All right,
Well, I'm already going to doubtyour judgment because you're thinking that in snow
people say, oh, what abouttracks that go in the middle of the
snow and then disappear. Well,Bob Strain told me once that he tracked

(08:28):
a sasquatch in the snow and thetrackway appeared to disappear. If you can
appear to disappear, that seems likea funny thing to say. But and
he looked more closely, and itturns out the sasquatch walked out in the
same footprints that it left coming in. I was just gonna say that,
yeah, hear that pretty calm likeI've heard some really good trackers talk about

(08:48):
how the bigfoots back tracked themselves,like stepping in their own footprints. Other
animals do that as well. Otheranimals do that same behavior as well,
and you know what humans do thathumans do that it's easier, it takes
less effort. So I'm going togo human error is what I'm going to
say with this, and sure thatthey probably go in trees too. I

(09:09):
think they take advantage of a threedimensional environment. You know, where humans
very often thinking two dimensions, theybe taking an advantage of fourth and fifth
dimensions, Cliff, because you're thinkingonly in three dimensions, I am,
in fact thinking only in three dimensionsunless you count time as the fourth.
But do they zap through portals anddisappear? Absolutely not? Probably not,

(09:31):
absolutely not. To me, italways seemed like that sort of theme about
tracks ending in the snow or whateverthe case may be, is one of
those things that is mythologized, like, oh, I've heard about X,
Y, and Z, Like I'venever met anyone who's observed that, or
has photographed it, or has inany way documented it. That was their
experience. And I've never met anyonedirectly, or spoken to anyone directly who

(09:54):
claims who have seen that. It'sjust one of those things that gets repeated
like, oh, well, whatdo you think about tracks that disappear in
the snow, as if it's takenfor granted that that actually occurs. And
so it seems to me like oneof the many myths associated with sasquatchry rather
than something that people actually observe.You know, I was with High Check.
I was with High Check the Mouthof the clot we're filming that mysterious

(10:16):
encounters. And we met a biologistguy had a masters in biology who in
the Queen Charlotte Queen Charlotte Islands offCanada, saw one walking at the beach
and he said, it's just blinkedout and went down. He said they
had massive seventeen inch tracks, didgreat depth into the sand. And Douga

(10:37):
was right there when we talked tothe guy, and he was We talked
to him for like a god almostan hour, and it was he didn't
say anything else nutty, And Ithink didn't Doug those ones at Slay Lake,
the first ones he saw he wasflying the up in the Arctic.
Didn't those just disappear too? I'mgoing to say I don't know what Doug
said, but I would say,no, they didn't do that, because
sasquatches don't do that. Bears don'tdo that. Humans don't do that,

(10:58):
elk don't do that. Sasquatch don'tdo that. There's no reason to think
they would. I don't think it'sthe most likely option, but I'll keep
it all the things on the table, Cliff, I don't it's pretty a
stretch thick and they can blink out, Yeah, I think that's a stretch
man. What if I said,like, hey, you know I live
in the woods. You've been tomy house, Bobs. If I heard
rummaging outside, you know, ontrash night, and I stuck my head

(11:18):
out the window. I saw abear going through my trash, can you
know? Which is entirely possible whereI live. And I yelled, hey,
bear, get out of here,and then the bear opened up a
porthole and disappeared into another dimension.Like what would you think of what about
someone who said that devolving? Idon't think that's like the most likely thing,

(11:39):
but I'll keep it all options open. Now, both the thing is
you you suffer under the same disadvantagethat I do, Okay, is that
we're both honest people, and weand therefore we assume everybody else is honest
and scrupulous and also good observers.We assume everybody is kind of like us,
Like I know that whatever I sayis my truth. You know,

(12:01):
I maybe incorrect about some things,but I'm going to tell the truth,
and everybody else is the same way. And not everybody's like that. And
I think that honest people like myselfand you, I know you very well,
and that you're not a liar.We assume everybody's telling us the truth.
But there's another thing we assume isthat they're accurate. And I don't
think people are accurate as often aswe give them credit for. You know,

(12:22):
people are just rife with misconceptions andcultural filters. These see things through
everybody, and I just think alot of that blurs the vision of what
actually happened. You know. Yeah, I recant my position. I'm not

(12:43):
trying to talk you down, Bobs. I'm really not. I'm just saying
that I think it's a mistake toput so much faith in the words that
come out of people's heads because ofthe error that it could very well be
there and they're not. I'm notsaying they're lying. Some people are lying,
but I'm not saying most. Idon't think most people are lying.
I think most people are telling theversion of truth that they see, but

(13:07):
it's so filtered and colored by theirown perception and cultural filters and everything like
that, that you got to takeeverybody's word, even my own, with
a grain of salt, and insome cases you need a whole salt lick.
Yeah, it's not in your natureto comply bolo. Yeah, it's

(13:28):
like, I just think there's something, there's something, there's something more to
the squats than just a large primeof it. It just doesn't make sensory
that there's not some kind of coverlike big cover up, or there's not
some special ability they have why wedon't have even a body. I think
all the answers that you seek youmight find in The Phenomenal Sasquatch by Matt

(13:50):
Pood available now at Amazon dot comor the American Big Foot Center. I've
heard of those arguments. It stilldoesn't sit wealthy that of all the human
history that you know, all theunless there's you know, there's government cover
ups and at all kinds of differentlevels around the world, like how we
just haven't got a body. Justit's just there's something, there's something weird

(14:11):
about them. Yeah, Well,Bob does. I mean, I think
more than anyone else on the show. I think you represent the beyond in
Bigfoot and Beyond, and we alllove you for it. We all love
you for it. But I'm goingto give you some pushback. Oh yeah,
I deserve it. No, I'msaying like, yeah, yeah,
I mean, I don't think they'relike chumping through portals all the time and
stuff like that, but forever.It's just there's just so much weirdness out

(14:33):
there, you know. It's like, I mean, I don't it doesn't
seem likely, but they're probably not. Well. I love you for your
openness, Bobs. Oh yeah,yes, it's one of the reasons I
love you. Of course, staytuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
and Bobo. Will be right backafter these messages. I want to see

(14:58):
if this UFO thing does tie andif there's so like grand unification of the
high strangeness and weird you know,like the orbs and the the tic tac
you know, video stuff and theUAP phenomena, and I just wonder like
there is there some link to allthat, like the paranormal Well I'm into
that actually, people, I thinkour listeners might be very very surprised to

(15:20):
hear me say something like that thatI love this idea that I see a
lot of the paranormal folks. Ithink John Tenny is one of them that
has done this. I have greatrespect for John. I love the guy
as a person, and I lovethat he's having so much fun with all
these different weird subjects. I thinkTom Powell is another good example of someone
who's into all sorts of various weirdthings. But and this idea of like

(15:43):
the grand unification theory of paranormal Ilove that in a way because yeah,
why not. And I've noticed thata lot of these these paranormal folks are
starting to refer to the thing asthe phenomenon, like that's what they're calling
you now, they're trying to tieit all. I think Greg and Dana
are doing that now. Imber right, grega data Newkirk, and I just

(16:04):
love that idea. But I seeabsolutely no reason to tie sasquatches in with
any of that whatsoever, Because thesasquatches that I am acquainted with, that
I have smelled and seen and trackedand heard and all that other stuff don't
seem to exhibit any weird phenomenon atall, and they seem to do everything

(16:26):
that all the other animals do.So I just have no reason at all
to think that there's anything weird goingon. Although that I've said it before
on the podcasters, that does notexclude the idea that whatever the phenomenon is
is happy to fool you into thinkingthat sasquatches are part of it. I
know we've talked about this, andI've talked about it ad infinitum ad nauseum

(16:48):
rather on other podcasts. But ifyou're looking at statistics, you know,
going by the numbers, these thingsthat happen in wild environments, whether it's
orbs or lights in the sky orapparition experiences, if you want to associate
it with something hair covered, somemammal, it's like, well, then
why don't we assume that orbs areassociated with possums or raccoons or deer or
bear or elk or moose, becausethose animals all occur much You're you're naming

(17:14):
out things that are completely There's millionsof bodies have been found, there's millions
of hours of foot footage of them, There's there's there's more bigness than there
are snow leopards. You know,we got well, once we started constantly
on snow leers, we got youknow, we got a lot more Like
there was no footage twenty five yearsago. Now there's a bunch of footage.
Yeah, but I'm just saying,if you know, very often people

(17:37):
argue, well, you know,orbs happen in forested areas, and sasquat
sightings happen in forested areas. Iget what you're saying that. Yeah,
yeah, I'll just say they theycould be. I mean, they they
might be. You know, Idon't think we're going to find out anytime
soon, if at all, inour lifetime, but it just makes you
want I just wanted, like,just doesn't simply that if they were,

(17:59):
just if they're I mean, speciesof humans couldn't. I mean, I
know they're more adapted, buties ahuman couldn't stay hidden this long, you
know what I mean. Well,hidden's relative though, because if we look
at claimants, if some significant percentageof those claims are true, then they're
seen semi frequently, especially if youlook at you know, North America from

(18:22):
a bird's eye view of the entirecontinent. Over the last let's say,
two hundred and fifty years. Thenthey're seen very frequently to some degree.
And so there is that paradox iflike they're everywhere and they're nowhere, they're
seen very rarely, but yet they'reseen often. And so you know,
those paradoxes I think are worth payingattention to. But on the other hand,

(18:44):
like I do think that there arereasonable explanations that we haven't collected a
specimen yet, or that someone hasn'tspontaneously discovered the remains of a naturally deceased
individual yet, et cetera. ButI get it, you know, those
are I wrestle with those things tooall the time. I just think like
the more likely explanation would be thatit is something psychological. Before I would

(19:04):
say, like they're just being pickedup by UFO's UAPs. Tom Green said,
to explain one unknown with another getsus nowhere. No, I don't
think we should focus on I'm notgoing to look into it. Like it's
just yeah, looking at the bigFoot and if that stuff comes out,

(19:26):
great, but if not, likewe'll get a naster one way or the
other. Well. See, that'sanother thing too that I keep going back
on you know, I understand thatsome people have had strange things occur to
them in the woods, and theyassociate those strange things with sasquatches, and
in their minds, sasquatches are responsiblefor what they perceive, right, you
know, But if I'm going tobe generous enough to say, okay,

(19:49):
I recognize that that there's some truthin that that you've experienced weird things,
You've seen some weird stuff, andyou're big footing, and do you think
bigfoots are responsible? I think theleast anybody can do is reciprocate that and
say, Okay, I've been doingthis for thirty years. I've never once
had anything weird like that happened tome in the woods, and I've been

(20:11):
around sasquatches a fair amount. Ithink it's fair to say so, I
don't know, I don't know.I'll recognize that other people have had weird
stuff going on, but you gotto you got to give it back and
say, yeah, I've never hadanything weird like that happened in the woods
when I've been out there and sasquatcheswere around. Never once. Yeah,
man, hey man, I'd loveit, you know, I love the

(20:32):
weird I think you know me,well, I love weird stuff. I
would love to have weird stuff likethat happened to me. It just doesn't.
It just doesn't, man. AndI put myself in that position hundreds
and hundreds of times, and it'sjust nothing there for me. You know,
some guys get all the luck becauseit shocked an idiot when you say,
like it could be you know,like those people are going like what

(20:52):
a sucker, you know, Andthen there's a fewople going now that kind
of knows what he's talking about.But that's the very small minority. I
just think the biggest risk is thatlike when once you open the door to
the unknown, not that the unknownshould always be off the table, but
then once you do open the doorof the unknown, where does it end?
Like why can't I invoke any unknownexplanation that I want to again,

(21:15):
like add infinitum until I have,you know, a satisfactory answer. And
so of course, like we takethese other unknown phenomena like you know,
lights in the sky or something likethat. But you could say to me,
it would have the same validity asis saying like, oh, well
they're you know, projections of thehuman mind, Like what do they call
those tulpas thought. For I mean, you could go on and on and
on with a zillion different explanations ratherthan saying, well, can we make

(21:40):
this work within what's known? Therealm of the known? Basically build an
explanatory model within the narrowest sets ofconstraints possible. And I think we can
do that with the biological sasquatch.And so to me, that's the danger
of opening the door of the unknown. It's like, well, where does
it end? It never ends.You just create a void that can be
filled with the near plausible completely throughto the ridiculous or the preposterous, and

(22:04):
they're all equally valid or invalid.You know what I mean, right right,
I don't see anything to explain,you know, everything I've personally observed,
because remember what I said earlier.Let's get rid of all the preconceived
notions, let's get rid of allthe quote unquote givens in the bigfoot world
and just question them for a littlewhile. You know, I don't see

(22:25):
anything to explain from my own personalexperience. I just see animal behavior.
I see that these are some sortof species of ape and by the way,
humans, I put humans in thesame category. So they're a human
like in some ways, but nota lot of ways. Are they a
human like? They're not very inhumanMostly I see nothing to explain that's out
of the ordinary, and therefore I'vegot you know, why would I explain

(22:49):
something that isn't there for me toexplain? You know. One of the
things that I've positive in the book, it's certainly not novel to me.
I mean it's been positive many times, is that magical or mystical things thinking
is a normative human cognitive disposition.And so if you were to look at
let's say, behaviors, for example, on a spectrum from environmentally stable meaning

(23:10):
that these behaviors are present in populationsacross the world versus environmentally labile, meaning
that they're influenced by the environment.So you could frame that as like nature
versus nurture, or natural versus cultural, et cetera, you do find that
mystical or magical thinking is an environmentallystable disposition. And so once you have

(23:32):
that as your framework, that wesee the world through a mystical or magical
lens normatively, then to me,that's the explanation for the experience of high
strangeness or at least the interpretation ofvarious phenomena as being connected to high strangeness
or supernatural phenomena worldwide, but yetnot having like a direct one to one
relationship with objective reality. And soboth of those things can be mutually true,

(23:56):
they're not necessarily mutually exclusive. Andso to me, that's the most
likely explanation for the preponderance of quoteunquote high strangeness as it applies to natural
phenomena and where it happens. Ohyeah, I'm not denying the existence of
experiences of high strangeness, and Iwould love to experience it. I never
have, but I would certainly liketo. Yeah, you know, it

(24:18):
reminds me of what Krantz wrote inhis book Krantz. I think I don't
remember exactly what he was talking aboutat the time, but it was something
to do with people claiming pretty wackythings about bigfoot and then and I guess
somebody might have proposed to Krantz like, well, the bigfoots are probably just
hiding that behavior from you, Andhe said, well, then why can't
we assume that about wolves as well? Like wolves have greater intelligence than any

(24:41):
human being in the high civilization andthey're just hiding that from us as well,
and it kind of gets us nowhereonce again. But the real danger,
in my opinion, the real dangerof paranormal thinking around sasquatches, is
that it drives away the very peoplethat we want to be involved in the
subject. It drives away the scientistsand the academics, thus putting acceptance of

(25:07):
the species further and further away.And if they are in danger in any
way at all, if they areslowly dying away and going extinct, then
then actually that frame of mind,that paranormal frame of mind literally is doing
damage to the population of sasquatches.Now. I don't know if it is
most likely the paranormal thinking about sasquatchesdoes no damage to the actual animals themselves,

(25:32):
but if it is, if theyare in any sort of danger whatsoever
their populations, and we are drivingaway scientists by purporting that they go through,
by suggesting that they go through portalsand all that sort of stuff,
well then it's doing real damage toan actual animal. And I think that's
that's criminal, you know, that'sthat's a shame that it's terrible. I'll
not suggesting they do. You knowwhat, I find really funny, and

(25:55):
I was meant to bring this upin a different discussion with you guys,
is that one of the things II see so frequently about that I see
so frequently like within the current cultureof sasquatchery is the constant, like often
repeated scapegoating of people that are biologicallygrounded by the more paranormally minded is saying,
like, well, you're saying they'rejust apes because you're a shill.

(26:18):
You're a shill for the establishment.You know the truth, but you're trying
to hide it. That's you.Hear that all the time. I see
comment sections all the time. Andthe funny thing is, if you read
Krantz, Krantz took the same sortof position, albeit tongue in cheek,
about and I'm pretty sure he wasreferring to John Eric Beckeard when he said
in his book something along the linesof like, I often wonder if these

(26:40):
paranormal proponents are shills for the loggingindustry, and they're being paid to get
out in public and make wild,preposterous claims about the sasquatch so that no
one will take it seriously. SoI think it's funny that You've had like
big talking heads on both sides ofthat coin accusing the other of being paid
chill. You know, like thiswhole scapegoating. It's pretty hilarious. Yeah.

(27:03):
Tom Powell actually almost accused I guessor suggested heavily to Eric beck Sjord
himself directly to him on the phonethat like, hey, Eric, like
who's paying you for this? Youknow, like who are you actually working
for? And he goes, oh, well, I think Eric said something
to the effect that we should getTom back on the show, by the
way, because Tom's gonna have anotherbook out real soon, so when he's

(27:25):
ready to put that on the shelvesfor people to purchase, we'll have Tom
back on. We'll ask him directlyabout this too, if I can remember
it, but I think he askedbeck Seord something the effect of who's paying
this? Well, I've got funder, but it's not the government. And
then Tom goes, do you reallythink that the CIA or some government agency
would put their names on the checksthat you're receiving, so you know who's
paying you? And then I guessthat shut her up for a while,

(27:48):
So just shut him up. Yeah, yeah, but because you know,
Tom's really into conspiracies and all sortsof wacky stuff, and I'd love the
guy, of course, so i'dlove to How great would it be to
be a fly on the wall ina conversation between Tom Powell and Eric beckjord
Oh yeah, yeah, I loveme some Tom Powell. So yeah,
he'll learn you, Adam from theUK, see what you started, man,

(28:11):
for it's got a lot of editingto do on this one. Cut
all that stuff out for no peoplereally you know, a lot of listeners
right in and say like I reallylove the conversations where you guys are just
having authentic conversation that it's like we'resitting around a campfire with you. So
I think all that stuff is greatbecause it is a genuine conversation, and
it also just goes to show that, you know, those differences of opinion,

(28:32):
that's where all the interesting stuff happens, because you know, the three
of us agree on ninety nine pointyou know, nine percent of the sasquatch
phenomenon. So the really interesting stuffcomes from those little bits of like I
don't know about that, what aboutthis? You know? And I think
it's very useful, very productive.I mean it's just kind of like with
like the whole like the pyramid mysteries, Like how how they do these giant

(28:52):
blocks like that's you know, andcut and fit these you know, like
tens of thousands of years ago.You know. It's just there's these weird
things that to fire knowledge. Youknow, that we don't understand. The
reason we're all here is because we'refascinated by mysteries. And you know,
every one of those mysteries is anopportunity for learning, for growth, for

(29:14):
discovery, et cetera. And soyou know, I'm fascinated by those things
too, just none of them gripedme like the sasquatch does. And so
I tend to be a sasquatch maximalist, you know, because somebody had written
in the other day about oh,have you read this or have you read
that? And they were, youknow, similar mysteries, but not in
that field. I was like,no, you know, they seem kind
of surprised that I don't follow othermysteries, and I'm like sorry, you
know, I'm not mysteriously promiscuous,you know, I just stick to one

(29:40):
mystery that's been enough. Stay tunedfor more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and
Bogo. We'll be right back afterthese messages. I don't see how anybody
has time for anything but Bigfoot.I mean, I don't even have time
to print my apple tree, soI mean to dig deeply into anything else.

(30:03):
I just don't see how anybody couldhave time for a thorough learning experience
in any of these other phenomenon.Maybe it's just the depth that I've found
myself going to. You know,with the bigfoot thing, it's hard to
say, well, you go intothe whole origin of species, like where
you know all the all the harminedlines and harmited lines. But that's because

(30:26):
of bigfoot. I'm learning about humanancestors because of sasquatches. I think that
we might we might find a sasquatchsomewhere down there. You know, paranthropies,
for example, are basically little bigfoots, and you know, to learn
if you want to learn about grizzlybears, I think it might serve someone
to learn about black bears. Right, and since we have examples of essentially

(30:47):
what you know for all practical purposesare bigfoots, you know, about five
four or five feet tall, Imight as well learn about those because I
bet you. In fact, Ithink I think it's fair to say that
I've learned a lot about sasquatches,or at least a the worst of like
Ian Tattersall that I mentioned on thelast episode and his work on ostrolopithes scenes

(31:07):
have certainly influenced my thinking about sasquatchesand helped me formulate perhaps a model for
them in my own mind. Itjust makes sense. But I see that
as the same the same subject.Really, you know, human ancestors,
but apes, it's all bigfoot tome. Yeah. That's the beauty of
having an intense interest in a subject, even if it seems really discreet and

(31:30):
separate from everything, is that it'slike the eye of a needle, you
know, And the closer you getto it, you know, the more
closely you scrutinize it, You eventuallyget close enough where you see the rest
of the world through the eye ofthe needle, you know what I mean.
And this subject, or any subject, is no different where if you
really want to understand it, youfind yourself digging into so many other disciplines
that are relevant in so many otherways that you know, you sort of

(31:52):
develop a real familiarity with a wholehost of things trying to answer just one
simple question. Well, it's anothergreat thing about the bigfoot subject. It
is multi disciplinary. You know,almost almost no matter what you're interested in,
you can apply it or use Bigfootthrough it. You know, geology
for example, if you love geology, or weather for that matter. My

(32:13):
wife's really in the weather. Soyou can use those those topics, those
those subjects, and you can applythem to the Bigfoot thing at various levels
somehow, you know. I thinkthat's one of the things that drew me
to the subject so strongly, becauseafter I was an elementary school teacher,
which is, you know, I'mnot great at anything, but I'm pretty

(32:34):
good at most things. It's kindof like the description of what an elementary
school teacher is, because you teachall the subjects to the students. And
I think that that's one of thethings that really made Bigfoot so appealing to
me as a subject, because Ilike a lot of different things, and
it turns out that those various subjectsare you can apply to the big Foot
phenomenon somehow and try to dig alittle deeper and you know, kind of

(32:57):
enter that subject from that particular angleso yeah, there's that's that's what I
was saying when you said, you'reyou're so busy with Digfoot, But I
mean like you're looking at things likeyou know, the how the biology and
the physical characteristics of the eye,like how the eye works, and you
know, like all like you know, all that kind of stuff like DNA
and photography, like in the geometryyou know of figuring out the size of

(33:23):
subjects in film, and when youbroad like Bigfoot out like research that way,
it's you'll never you'll never have timefor all of it. And unfortunately,
I never be an expert in anyof it. I'll never be good
enough at any one of those thingsto uh, you know, to make
a huge difference. But I'm moreof a generalist, I guess. But

(33:44):
that is the beauty of it islike the more the more you're interested you
are, the deeper the interest,the more things you make contact with.
And you know, I've heard itdescribed like you know, you have this
kind of territory of what you understand, and as that territory grows, of
course the boundary is growing, andso you're coming into contact with more of
what you don't understand. So themore you know, the larger that boundary

(34:05):
is touching the unknown, and it'sjust more and more opportunities to learn,
which is really a fantastic thing.I mean, it's everyone should have a
calling of similar nature, you know, that drives them to constantly learn and
constantly grow. And I'm just ayou know, I'm grateful that we all
have that, because you know,I've definitely met plenty of people who,

(34:25):
whether they believe in the subject ornot, have said to me directly,
friends, like I wish there wassomething in my life that I was as
interested in as you are the sasquatch. And it's kind of sad to hear
from people, you know that theynot everyone has found that, saw.
I tell them, if you're assmart and good look as me, you
would be here here. So Ihere's a question, I guess I don't

(34:45):
know. This might be a questionmore for Matt than Bobo, but I'd
like Bobo's perspective as well. Obviously, if sasquatches turn out to be a
truly paranormal species, they can phasein and out and do the predator sort
of thing, and you know theyturn invisible or travel through portals and read
your mind, then all that kindof stuff. Would you still be interested

(35:06):
in them? Oh? Absolutely,because my interest is involuntary. I mean,
if I could choose what to beinterested in, I probably would have
chosen to be, like deeply interestedin accounting or engineering or something that was
a hell of a lot more lucrativeand certainly be more boring. But you
know, it's not like choosing todevote yourself to the sasquatch phenomenon makes for

(35:28):
you know the fewest amount of headachesand heartaches and frustrations and things of that
nature. So I consider it aninvoluntary compulsion, that sort of deep interest.
And so I think even if itdid turn out to be something like
that, if my interests were rootedstrictly within the biological then I could have
just aimed it at bears. Oryou know, there's analogs like the Eastern

(35:51):
cougar. You know, a lotof people claim to see them in the
East. They've purportedly survived in placeswhere the state or federal government says they've
been extirpated, And so I couldjust as easily be pursuing that, or
I've Bill Woodpeckers. Absolutely, there'sa whole host of things that are almost
perfect analogues, but for some reason, like I'm just not compelled to go

(36:13):
do that. Of course, ifI saw a cougar, you know,
it'd be amazing and fascinating. Butso, you know, I think even
if I discovered that the fundamental natureof the phenomenon, like even if it
were discovered that no, actually itis some function of the human psyche,
some element of the human mind,I would still be like, Okay,
well, then why hasn't happened tome? Like why I haven't I seen

(36:34):
one? What am I doing wrongthat I've not triggered this in my own
mind where I can have the experiencethat others claim to have. So I'd
still be pursuing that experience at thevery least. So no, I don't
think it would change for me.I don't think I could say the same.
Yeah, I think if these werejust animals, I would be much
less interested in them, in thesame way that I'm not really interested in
ghosts. You would you still beinterested in them, Yeah, to some

(36:55):
degree, but I don't think Iwould. It would hold it for me
like it does. You know.You know, we've all seen a lot
of people that have either started outwith a paranormal interpretation or have you know,
lean into that very often as anexplanation for their own lack of contact,
because it would be a sort ofconvenient scapegoat. And I understand that,
like believe me. I mean,the one of the arguments I make

(37:17):
in the book over and over islike, you know, it's really been
the failure of proponents to deliver substantiveproof rather than to lay the blame at
the feet of the quote unquote establishmentfor you know, denying the existence or
rejecting the evidence offered thus far.And I look at that as an opportunity.
It's like, Okay, well wecan do better, and we can
try harder, and we can applyourselves more. But you know, for

(37:40):
a lot of people, I thinkit's easier to go, oh, well,
I've never seen one because they canbecome invisible, or because they can
read my thoughts and they know beforeI leave my house that I'm looking for
them, and so they're going tohide from me. And it's like that's
a convenience scapegoat. You know.I prefer to just take the blame on
myself and say, well, I'mapparently not doing it right. But at
the same time. You know,I think we might not be doing it

(38:04):
right because you know, sometimes peoplewill say like, oh, yeah,
well, what proof do you thinkyou have? And I'm like, I
have as much proof for the existenceof the Sasquatch as everyone else, which
is absolutely zero. You know,we have evidence, and that evidence is
subjective and it requires a lot offamiliarity with relevant disciplines to interpret that evidence.
But in terms of absolute, definitiveproof, no one has that yet.

(38:27):
And so I would look at thatand go, well, I should
be doing better rather than saying,well, the Sasquatch is eluding me via
mystical means, you know what Imean, like a true suit a shill,
a shill going to cash my fedcheck. Now, I think I've
been accused of being a government shillbefore you have. Yeah, I'm pretty

(38:50):
sure I have. I don't paymuch attention to the outside world, but
uh, things leak back to me, and I'm pretty sure I've been accused
of that. You both have.I've seen multiple comments that finding Bigfoot is
part of a government disinformation campaign.Well, I'll say this, man,
if I'm on the government payroll,their benefit package sucks. You know,
no medical at all no retirements.I haven't seen a check in ever.

(39:15):
Yeah, so whatever that's worth.Well, that's one question down. We'll
at least get through the voicemails here, all right, let's go. Let's
let's get to the next one.Then see what you did to us,
Adam, Thank you for that,but you almost broke us up. You
almost broke a part of family.Hello, Cliff from Bobo, This is

(39:37):
Kevin from Cincinnati. Just let youguys know, pay a compliment. You
guys rock. You help my thirdshift go a lot faster when the podcast
is on. I got a serious, not so serious question. People are
always leaving apples and peanut butter andstuff for Bigfoot. I was wondering if
anybody's ever tried luring them in withbananas. I've never heard about it.

(39:59):
Cliff, please correct me if I'mwrong. My wife loves correct me.
Anyway, if anybody's actually tried bananas, thank you so much for everything you
guys do and research and keeping usall updated on it. So keep a
squatchy and thank you very much.People have said that they that they had

(40:19):
to leave one half peeled, andwhen they did that, then the Bigfoot
started taking them. Well they knewhow to eat it properly, I guess,
is what I've heard a couple ofdifferent people say over the years.
You know, I don't know alot of people that have been very successful
with gifting at all. I certainlythe sasquatches have been I've been told sasquatches

(40:40):
are stealing apples and stuff. Butthe Pacific Northwest apples are kind of everywhere.
You know, there's even abandoned appleorchards in the woods if you know
where to look. Sometimes they growhere. You know, they've grown here
for two hundred years or more.You know, I don't think they're native
to the area, but certainly theearly pioneers brought them out. I think
apples are native to Asias somewhere,if I remember right. But still they've

(41:02):
kind of developed a taste. Andbananas don't live here. They don't even
they don't even grow here really effectivelyfor the most part, because they like
the tropical climates, so they probablywouldn't be very familiar with them. And
the same sort of way, they'renot very familiar with citrus. You know,
most citrus trees don't do well uphere in the Pacific Northwest. But
I don't know. Maybe there's placeslike down outside of Bakersfield and whatnot where

(41:23):
there's huge orange groves at the footof like the Current River. I'm sure
that those things get rated sometimes bysasquatches, but it might just be a
lack of familiarity. But I personallyhave never not once ever been successful with
baiting or delivered or gifting or anyof that stuff with sasquatches, even when

(41:44):
I knew they were there and Ileft stuff out, like at the water
spot when you were there, Boboleft stuff out for him, and they
didn't want it. They didn't wantanything to do with it. So I
don't know. I'm a little perplexedby all that. I know. Tom
Shay's had some success. He washaving some success with peanut butter, and
at least he believes that that's whatit was. The sasquatch was responsible.
He would put peanut butter jars outattached to trees with duct tape and then

(42:07):
screw the lid on. Actually itnever even took the lid off, including
the safety seal, and he wouldget those things, you know, taken
from him off the tree, andthat eventually led to the Natella casts if
you're familiar with that where he didn'thave peanut butter one time, so we
left out natella and got some bigfinger marks in the natella. And I
always joke saying that clearly it hadto be a sasquatch and not a human

(42:30):
because any human would have eaten allthe natella. But yeah, I've never
had any luck with any of that. But have you directly either one of
you guys had luck with baiting oryou know, gifting or whatever you want
to call it, leaving food outfor these things. Yeah, I did
with that time with Lighterman when wewere camping up by Bluff. We were
in a campground up there, andthe thing it ran through the camp I

(42:53):
mean, it ran right down behindus, I mean and didn't even break
stride and swooped up like ten appleswithout without breaking strata. It was insane.
Yeah, I remember Lighterman talking aboutthat. That was that was pretty
interesting, just like like here arethe foots go, the footsteps run by,
and then you know it scooping upan entire thing of apples and one

(43:14):
presumably one hand, I don't know, maybe both, who knows, I
don't know, but it was thatwas crazy, And then I've had them.
I'm sure leave me is God,that's been well like ten years ago.
That's what I was just talking about. Where I was out where you
know, where the we had therecorders out. We got the Knox after
we left like a half hour later. That's I was on that same trail
ten years ago, and I was, I was going up there a lot.

(43:37):
I did my calls, and Iwas leaving out dried mango and uh
papaya all the time. And Iwent out that day and this German guy
was living at my house. Hewas a wait He was waiting for the
PCT trail to though out, whichdidn't happen that you're, until like August
because the records records snow year thatyear for that whatever. So it was

(44:01):
he had nowhere to stay. Sohe used to work for me around the
house. He did some like constructionjobs and stuff whatever, but he wanted
to go out. He got reallyinto the big foot thing hanging out,
being like we went up there andpoked around, you know, you cres
me some places. And he reada bunch of books at my house and
I said, all right, I'lltake you to the spot and then you
got to go off trail and you'vegot to hike out and spend a couple
of days out there, and you'llbe fine, you know, but you

(44:23):
know you might get scared, butit's cool. And so we go walking
down there and we I did somecalls at the trail head and we walked
in. We had to walk likea mile and a half, two miles,
and as we're going in, justright there, about two unity yards
in was this fresh killed rabbit laidout across the trail, like in perfect

(44:44):
like it didn't just die of aheart attack, like something laid it out.
It was totally fresh and warm.And I got no riga mortis at
all. I was like, well, that's a trip and monkey knows like
freaking out on it. And thenso we walked in and we I showed
him a hike up here, gothat that ridge and drop down to that
next little valley and hang out therefor a couple of days and you know,

(45:04):
trying to knocks and stuff and whoopsit after it gets dark. And
as I came back, I didsome whoops of them there, like you
know, and then we turned aroundand started walking out, and you know,
like just right up the trail fromthere was another rabbit the exact same
position, laid out the exact same, exactly, the exact same like.
It was a different rabbit. Itwas way bigger, and it was it
was laid out just across the trail, both its legs, you know,

(45:28):
the legs feet touching together like itwas you know, presented, it was
presented. It was totally warm,fresh broke neck. I was like,
oh, they gifted me that timeand then the time I was with my
dad, they gifted they. I'vebeen gifted more than I think that I
know. If they've taken gifts fromme, I'll say that stay tuned for
more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff andBobo. We'll be right back after these

(45:51):
messages. But bananas, I don'tsee why not. I think the key
with the banana thing, and thisis something that Tom Shay has done with
some of those peanut butter jars,the ones that he took the safety seal
off, is that he put hisown finger than the peanut butter and rubbed
it on the outside of the jarto get the smell out there. So

(46:12):
I think that that would be thekey with bananas because you know, bananas
are delicious. You may have noticed. I think if they could smell that,
then they would go, oh yeah, these smell delicious, and then
you'd have a better chance with it. Well, I think a big problem
is that it's really hard to makesense of negative information or missing information or
you know, negative data in thatif these animals have very large home ranges,

(46:35):
like I think they do, andthey're very mobile within those home ranges,
like people might go out into anarea where sightings have occurred and they
set up some kind of a baitstation and nothing gets taken, and they
make the proclamation, oh, well, the Sasquatch isn't interested in food,
And the reality is, like,man, there might not have been one
within like six miles of you,and it might have had no clue that
you were there for those two orthree nights or whatever. And so it's

(46:59):
not that they rejected your food orweren't interested. They just didn't even know
you where the food existed at thatpoint in time because they were elsewhere.
It's not like, you know,they're in such abundance that they're within a
square mile of everywhere you could possiblyplant yourself. And so I think a
lot of what people interpret as theignoring of food or you know, people
are just assuming that the Sasquatch seesthe food and is electing not to take

(47:22):
it, which is probably not thecase in most of those cases. Right,
I've been out where like we knowthey were there, like they were
knocking around us in whistle and stuff, and I've gone out and put it
out there, you know, likeno cameras on, like they could approach
it not seen, and they nevertouched it than that pretty often. Yeah,
I mean that might be part ofit. To me, it's the
same thing as like you know,oh, well the Sasquatch heard our calls

(47:43):
and chose not to call back,and it's like, oh, in all
likelihood, there wasn't one within earshot. You know, ninety percent of the
time that we're out there, it'sjust again like a number of games,
so to speak. Well, imean there's definitely times that they're out there
and the heroes they just don't respond, but we don't know that we don't
know which were one one or theother. Oh exactly. I'm just saying
it's more likely that you know,there's just not one around than it is

(48:06):
that like, oh, they're around, and they're observing everything we're doing,
and they're just you know, exercisingself control and deciding not to interact or
respond or take the food. Notthat it would be more likely that they
would, it's just that, likein the absence of responses or the absence
of bait being taken, I thinkthe simplest explanation would be, well,
they're just not one around, Ratherthan just say like, oh, they

(48:27):
were here, we didn't hear anything, which is evidence that they were here
and chose to be quiet. It'slike, no, you didn't hear anything
because there's probably nothing there to hear. You know, the forest is mostly
empty. It's like the ocean.You know, ninety percent of the fish
living ten percent of the ocean.The forests are staggeringly empty. That's what
I learned more than anything else.That's what i'd learned from having a thermal
imager. Yeah, there's just alot of rats, Yeah, a lot

(48:52):
of rats. All right, Sowe have one more voicemail and a bunch
of written stuff. But we're alreadyover an hour right now, so I'd
say, let's do the voicemail.Yeah, let's talk about all right,
here's the last voice mail. Hi, I'm my name Steve. Thank you
so much Cliff and Matt for givingus the opportunity to come and spend the
evening with you on Thursday. Itwas an excellent time. I loved it.

(49:15):
Thank you so much. You guysare generous hosts. I appreciate it.
Anyway, the Ape Canyon exhibit hadthat big picture hanging above it,
and I just it just made myimagination reun wild. So my question is,
is anybody putting trail cams up aroundan area is it still being researched
up there or that area is stillbeing monitored. I know people are going

(49:37):
up there and revisiting the site,but it's being monitored. Do you have
any information for us on that?Thank you. Yeah, it's not it's
not. Things have happened. WhileMark has been on expedition up there.
He's heard some amazing vocalizations from multipleanimals, including like the weird sort of

(49:57):
talking like vocalizations like you like thatkind of stuff. He's heard those.
They've cast footprints up there and seenother footprints seeing up on top there,
up towards Pumas Butte and plains atAbraham and all that sort of thing.
There's plentiful mountain goats. I mean, I saw at least two distinct herds

(50:20):
when I was there in July thispast year, and I think that that's
the reason sasquatches are up there aswell. There's a lot of mountain goats,
particularly in the area, and sasquatchesbeing apes, are really good at
hopping around and crazy terrain and stuff, and they're the kind of predator that
could actually, you know, geta mountain, go take it down.
I think so. I think that'swhy they're up there. But yeah,

(50:40):
Mark and his colleagues who have goneup there over the years have cast at
least one footprint that and by theway, we're going to get that footprint
for the North American Big Foot Centersexhibit. Since Steve, you have been
to the museum and you've seen thenew displays, you know, the glass
casess underneath those right now, wehave a couple of artifacts in there.

(51:00):
We have a copy of Fred Beck'sbook I Fought the Ape Man of Mount
Saint Helen's. Oh. We havea footprint cast, an original footprint cast
that was donated to the museum bya group of researchers who work that area.
Actually they were down below. Theywere down below between maybe Ape Caves
and the southeast side of the mountainin that stretch there. But a lot

(51:20):
of stuff happens in that stretch.Of course, a lot of stuff happens
in other stretches of the mountain too, you know, the horse Camp area,
and some stuff up on top ofthe Tootle River. And there's a
lot of good big footing to bedone in Mount Saint Helens still, but
up on top there no one's monitoringit because it's a long ways in.
You know, it's a five orsix mile walk the fifteen hundred foot elevation
gain, and you know, it'sjust a long walk in. There's a

(51:44):
lot of easier places that you canmonitor with any regularity than there, as
far as you know. Down tothe cabin site, first of all,
I want to make it very clearno one should go there. It's extraordinarily
dangerous and legitimately you are taking yourlife in your own hands when you even
approach it. So I want tomake them very very clear. I do

(52:04):
I strongly recommend do not try togo to the cabin site. You don't
know where it is. There's nosign of it above ground anymore as of
last year, you won't even knowyou're there. If you happen to stumble
on it, you won't even knowit, and you'll just keep stumbling,
and one wrong stumble will make youplummet to your death. And you can
even look it up online. Somepeople were there in the early seventies.

(52:24):
They might have even been looking forthe cabin site because really there's no other
reason to go there. And oneguy fell to his death there, you
know, down into the ravine,so I do not recommend you get down
there. So no one, noone's in there monitoring anything. Because even
up on top of the plains ofAbraham, which is the only place you're
allowed really to camp in that areabecause it's the Volcanic National Monument, that's

(52:46):
a five to six mile walk inand it's not easy and it's not terrible.
You know, it's just a fiveto six mile walk, but still,
you know, in and out oneday that's twelve miles, and it's
to monitor what you know, there'sthere's plenty of more accessible bigfoots around Mount
Saint Helens and those well, itshows you, it shows you that like
the areas, they'll hang out likethis, you're talking about how to not

(53:07):
this is to get to you,and like those squatches are just walking around
down there. Oh yeah, yeah, the whole Ape Canyon event, you
know, back in twenty four,one hundred years ago. It just makes
a lot of sense when you keepin mind that these things are apes,
and climbing is what they do.You know, you look at the anatomy
of a sasquatch. Their arms arelonger than their legs. That means they're

(53:27):
built for climbing, you know.I mean, they're they're climbing around to
these uneven terrain and that's the kindof thing they're made for. They don't
mind being in very inaccessible and crazyplaces that humans simply don't like to go,
you know, at least without ropesand whatnot. But for sasquatches and

(53:47):
goats and other animals, it's nobig deal. They just go there.
It's just what they do. Yeah, I can totally see why. I
can totally see why. But no, as far as I know, Steve,
no one is actually monitoring up ontop of the mountain because it's just
so far in and so difficult toreach, so hard to get to.
It just be hard you know,especially when you can just go to the

(54:08):
you go off the side of theroad down below, and you know,
there's been sidings on the trail inbetween the parking lot and eight caves.
There have been literally sightings there atnight, like at the end of the
day. The last group to walkout of the caves. In one summer,
just like six or eight years ago, I got three reports in a
matter of two months, all aboutsix or seven eight o'clock at night,

(54:32):
you know, walking out from thecaves, like the last group going out
from the tour or whatever, andthere was a visual siding, there was
rock throwing, and then there werea bunch of whistles accompanied by something trailing
them out. All three of thoseare Sasquatches most likely, and that was
in one summer. So why wouldyou walk six miles up to a desolate
place with no water source, whereyou're not allowed to camp to monitor up

(54:57):
there. That's my thought. Iwould never do that. I would just
go off the side of the roadby the parking lot and see if I
can find them there, because I'mjust too lazy to do otherwise, you
know. Oh and by the way, I'm glad you enjoyed the Meldium event.
Thank you very much for coming.All right, so here is the
first written question. Take it,Bobs. Dustin Shelton writes, Hi,
Cliff and Bobo love the show.I've been watching old episodes of Finding Bigfoot.

(55:21):
I'm floored by the amount of timesRenee says I can't rule it out
being a person in a suit,or I think it was someone playing a
prank. But the thousands of witnessesyou counted on the show, did she
really think that there really were thatmany people that had access to a first
suit looking to pull one over onsomeone? Or was she just out of
things to say? I don't knowabout that, because what I found with
Renee is that she very often toldus what it was not, but would

(55:45):
almost never tell us what she thoughtit was. And I think it's a
simple thing to say, Oh,I can't rule out it as a person
wearing a suit, Well, guesswhat Chica sasquatches look like people in monkey
suits. I don't know, man, It's like, you know, how
do I know that's a deer andnot a baby elk in a deer suit?
They kind of look the same too, you know what I mean?
So that was my problem with that. You know, I like Renee.

(56:07):
She's a lovely person, very verykind in a lot of ways and all
that stuff, But at the sametime, I found her explanations lacking,
where very often she was more thanwilling to say what it was not,
but would almost never offer up whata more reasonable explanation was. And if
you notice, she didn't really didn'tlike to say that I think this dude's
lying, Like she wouldn't do that, you know, because she also has

(56:27):
a lot of faith in people.But yeah, so I don't know.
I think it would have been alot easier just to say pushaw, you're
not telling the truth and be donewith it, instead of a well that's
a person in a suit, whichyou know seems extraordinarily unlikely in a lot
of those circumstances. Well, Iknow I've said this before in previous episodes
as an outsider who was not,you know, a real member of the

(56:50):
crew. But I worked on acouple of episodes, was that I would
watch those talking head interviews because I'dbe standing off to the side, and
of course, like the questions youguys would get asked would be things like,
you know what about this is similarto other sasquatch sidings? What about
this makes you lean towards this beinga legitimate sasquatch siding, et cetera.
And the questions that would get askedof Vernee in the talking head segments would
be like, why is this nota sasquatch? What other explanations might you

(57:14):
have? You know, So,of course she's answering those questions, and
you're watching like the cumulative however manyyou know, dozens or maybe the full
hundred episodes of that show, andso you're seeing her by herself saying things
that seem spontaneous, but really she'sanswering questions, and because of the sort
of role that she had on theshow, there's a certain kind of question

(57:34):
being asked that you guys, arenot necessarily being asked, Like when you
say, that's fair at least foran audience member to know or understand,
Oh, absolutely absolutely, because hey, it's TV, and we may have
had pretty much the you know,the most honest and transparent Bigfoot show out
there that's in my opinion, that'sbeen made. But at the same time,
it's still TV, and at best, television is a shallow superficial medium.

(57:59):
There's a lot that goes on offcamera that drives the narrative, you
know, and at the end ofthe day, the producers are trying to
make a narrative, a story thatmakes sense to the viewer, that is
cohesive and connects to one another,and all that sort of stuff. It's
a psychological thing. I never reallyunderstood the amount of psychology that goes into
television. Like little things too,like if you have a scene where you

(58:22):
don't do a drive up scene,like it's unsettling to the viewer, Like
you have to see the people arriveat a location, otherwise it doesn't make
sense to the viewer and it's unsettlingto them. And also other little things
like if you exit to the leftof the screen, that means you should
come back on from the left orfrom the right. I don't forget which

(58:43):
one it is. But like littlethings like that, I mean, I
guess that's the kind of thing youpick up in film school. But the
small psychological quirks could develop, andyou know, if you don't do it
right, and it's unsettling to theviewer. So yeah, but the producers
are always driving a narrow in away that that goes along with a storyline,

(59:04):
so the viewer, So it iswhat makes sense to the viewer,
you know, And Renee did getasked questions like, well, since you
don't believe in bigfoot, that's nota bigfoot? What else do you think
it could be, you know,trying to get a trying to get answers
from her like that. Okay.The next question is from Greg Thomas,
and he asks what is the processfor collecting and storing a hair sample for

(59:28):
DNA testing to improve the likelihood ofhaving a bigfoot hair sample that can be
successfully tested. Thank you for yourcontinued great work on the podcast and other
things you guys continue to do tofurther increase people's knowledge about Bigfoot. Try
not to touch it. Don't don'ttouch the hair. You know, tweezers
or gloves are great. You know, you don't breathe on it, don't

(59:50):
get too close to it because themoisture coming out of your mouth contains your
DNA. And then put it ina paper envelope, preferably one of the
those acid free paper envelopes, thebrown colored ones. But yeah, I
mean that's kind of it. Hair'sreally simple to deal with get it off
the branch or whatever it's on.With the tweezers if you can, sterilized

(01:00:13):
tweezers are best. But you know, use whatever you have, put it
in an envelope and there you go. That's it. Then send it to
Derby, Derby Orchid. So that'swhat I would do, all right.
We got this one from Jamie Jamieincs. I think that's that's the tattoo
ars we see in Ohio every year. I think that's what that is.
We are here debating how sasquatch drink. One of us says with the cup

(01:00:36):
hand, and the other says,putting his face into the water source.
What do you think? Yeah,I've heard him doing bolt, but I've
heard more of the cup hand.I've heard numerous observations of sasquatches using a
cup hand and bringing the water upto its mouth. So I think that's
probably the way to the way togo. Yeah, definitely, that's the
most common reported. Yeah. WilliamRoe of course observed a sasquatch at very

(01:00:59):
close range and in a calm andabout how how I guess prehensile their lips
are, you know, about howit extend out and kind of wrap around
the berry leaves. It was eatingthe leaves off a very berry bullsh I
remember correctly. So yeah, somaybe something like that goes on when they
drink too. I was putting likesnap off a stock, then put in
the base of the stock like acorner on the cob, and then pull

(01:01:22):
it through its teeth and just stripeverything into its smellt Like, did you,
Matt when you were you know,and Emily were at the house,
did you see those bloody corn cobsthat Melissa made? I did the corn
on the macab Yeah, corn onthe macab. Well, I love my
wife, you can see why.And I got to come face to face

(01:01:43):
with the Bobo effigy in the museumand it was strikingly life like. Oh
sure you it was just it wasstrikingly lifelike for your your previous life back
in the day, like circa twelveBobo. Yeah. Your comment is,
mel how come he made the fatbobs? Yes? Because it was easier

(01:02:05):
to sculpt. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And of course we're talking
about we on the top of thehat rack in the North American Bigfoot Center,
we have a sculpt of Bobo's headwith a gone squatch and hat on
it that my wife made made alate text copy of it, and I
comment, I comment to customers thatwhen they ask about you and its Bobo

(01:02:25):
doing it. So we put hishead on a spike right there as a
warning in case he came by.I didn't want fad Paler to have all
the fun. Yeah, I shouldjust put out a bunch of boboisms from
an episode or two, and thenyou could put it on like a little
Bluetooth speaker with a motion sensor,and so when people walk by it,
it just spontaneously goes like class.Maybe we'll add that to the Murphy mix,

(01:02:50):
you know, instead of the knockingand the whooping, it'll go cut
that out. Here's the last writtenquestion and then you have to, you
know, speaking of maybe as alittle teaser for what our bonus episode will
be. I did find, tomy great surprise the other day. I
was going through one of our closetswhere we store a lot of like outdoor
gear, and I saw Emily,my wife, had one of the pink

(01:03:15):
gun squatching hats from back in theday that she'd bought like way before we
ever met, and I was like, oh, there's the influence of Bobo
in my life before Emily was inmy life, and so we had a
good laugh about that. Have youever run into someone just like spontaneously out
in the wild wearing a gun squatchand hat, like, not at a
Bigfoot of inn or something, butjust like out in public randomly, Oh

(01:03:35):
lots of times. Did you eversee that picture of Justin Bieber wearing a
gun, squatch and hat? Yeah, that's pretty epic. I think.
Oh we put it I'm pretty surewe put it out on social media once
early on in the in the podcast, and then all the comments were so
negative about Justin Bieber. I waslike, oh, okay, yeah,
I put it on my social mediaback in the day, and I couldn't
believe all the angry people and hatredand just crazy easy stuff like I don't

(01:04:00):
know what it is about that guythat drives everybody else nuts like that,
but man, that that picture reallybrought out the worst and a lot of
people. I'll say that I lovethe Beames. Well, you see all
the attention that Taylor Swift bring intothe NFL, and so if you guys
somehow make Taylor Swift a Bigfoot andBeyond fan, we can retire we'll be

(01:04:23):
recording these episodes on Bobo's yacht.All these people who are mad at Taylor.
Taylor Swift just need to shake itoff, man, But thank you
very much. Is that one ofher songs? Yeah, it's the only
one I know, by the way, But yeah, somebody get Taylor going
Squatching hat or T shirt listeners,if any of you happen to be like

(01:04:44):
Taylor Swift's third cousin, give hera Bigfoot and Beyond t shirt. If
she wears it at the super Bowl, We'll deliver to you the best content
you could possibly imagine. I thinkshe's more of a keep it squatchy girl.
All right, Bob, this one'syours. This one comes Larry Beatty.
How sensitive do you think bigfoots areto electronic equipment? They seem to
avoid electronics is And as per yourstory about money Maker using the technique of

(01:05:08):
putting a camera inside a cabinet insidea trailer, should current bigfooters go low
tech like the Patterson film or doyou think high tech will finally bring us
closure? I think that film wasgreat and there's no like especially with that
one, like k one Roger wasusing. You just pull the trail.
There's no warm up, it's justboom, it's rolling. That's a bonus.

(01:05:28):
But you have to be so sofrugal filming, I think, is
it's expensive if you only have likeso many minutes on per role and it's
like that's it's just not feis isnot practical at all. But yeah,
I think they're sensitive electronics, butoddly enough, not audio recorders like they
don't that does not seem to dowith them, like the cameras, do
game cams anything, if it's likean infrared beam, you know. Well,

(01:05:53):
I think if they're sensitive to electronicsat all, I personally think that
they hear them like that high pitchedwine. And the only thing I can
really anchor that on is when whenI was a kid, you know,
back in the seventies and eighties andstuff, I could tell if there was
a television on in the other roombecause I could kind of hear it in
a way, you know. Andthe televisions nowadays, I don't think really

(01:06:14):
do that as much as they didback in the day. You know,
probably they probably had something to dowith the tubes inside the TV and all
that sort of stuff, because everything'sdigital nowadays. And technology has changed so
much. But I'm guessing this isjust a guess that there's something like that
they emit noise. There is anengineer from Wisconsin that I was in contact
with for a while, and hedid some testing with game cameras and found

(01:06:38):
that all of them, or almostall of them, are quite noisy at
very very high frequencies beyond which humanscan hear. He said that the Raconics
hyper Fire, which are these littlejobbers that cost like six hundred bucks,
they are apparently pretty quiet. Sohe invested a great deal of money in
those, and I don't think heever got any pictures or anything. I've
kind of a lost touch with hima little bit. He might listener,

(01:07:00):
for all we know. He's abigfoot guy after all, So I don't
know. So if that, ifthat's you out there, I'm talking about
you. But yeah, apparently theyactually make a kind of a lot of
noise, but I don't I don'tthink they feel it or anything or sensitive
to em efort radiation or anything likethat. And as evidence of that are
game camera pictures that are actually prettygood from low quality cameras. I think

(01:07:24):
that it's a numbers game and Ithink that sasquatches are rare and they're very
very You can't predict where they're goingto walk, and people who see them
have cameras on them nowadays because everybody'sgot a phone in their pocket. It's
just say, it's hard to geta picture of any wild animal. Well
that was the last question, right, yep. Now you know Valentine's Day

(01:07:44):
is this week. We're going todo something special for Valentine's Day this week.
I think it's going to be kindof cool. I'm excited about this
when we've been kind of talking aboutdoing something like this for kind of a
long time. See, all ofus have a significant other in our lives,
and sometimes I kind of wonder,like, how the heck do they
deal with us? And not onlydoes Melissa, by the way, like
Karita, of course, she's bewilderingin that sort of way, how she

(01:08:09):
deals with Bobo and even Emily whois a bigfooter because you know Creta on
Melissa, they're not bigfooters, butEmily, Matt Prout's wife there is a
big footer. So that makes sensethat she can deal with all this bigfoot
stuff and everything. But I gotto say, that all three of them
have to be angels, and they'realso our support team behind the scenes here,
not only in our regular lives,but also professionally as well. How
Melissa helps out at the museum,and I'm sure that Bobo and Matt have

(01:08:30):
their own examples of how their significantothers support them and help them and love
them along the way. So whatwe thought would be a fun idea is
for our members section. This isonly for the members, by the way,
So if you're not a member yet, maybe you want to become one.
You can go to the podcast website, Bigfoot of Beyond podcast dot com
and hit the membership button and they'lltake you right to where you need to

(01:08:50):
go. Five bucks a month youget an extra like, god, what,
four hours of Cliff, Bobo andMatt every single month. That's kind
of cool. But what we're gonnado is we're gonna take questions from our
members for the Q and A,and we're not going to answer them.
Emily, Melissa and Karita are goingto answer them, and I cannot wait

(01:09:12):
to hear what they say. Icould wait. I know you like you're
scared both that you have to admitthat you're scared of what she's going to
say. I want to get screwed. Yeah, but don't you think we're
all going to get screwed. That'swhat they ask I'm going to get the
worst of it. I suspect thatall the questions big what's Bubbo like behind
the scene, and she doesn't know. I think it's going to be super

(01:09:40):
fun. We did put out theword to our patrons like, hey,
we're going to do this episode wherethe ladies behind the scenes are big fan
of beon are going to answer yourquestions and so We've gotten some good questions
already. So I'm looking forward toit. I'm looking forward to it.
I'm looking forward to hearing what Kartahas to say. Well, there you
go. That's something for our memberslook forward to every Thursday and new member

(01:10:01):
episode comes out. If you wantto become a member again, go to
the website become a member. It'scool at other than that, Bobs,
why don't you take us out ofhere? All right? Folks? That
wraps up another episode of Bigfoot andBeyond with Cliff and Bobo doing our monthly
question and answer with the folks.So thanks for sending in those questions and
until next week, y'all keep itsquatchy. Well. Thanks for listening to

(01:10:29):
this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard,
please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
get your podcasts, and follow uson Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond
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(01:10:50):
Bigfoot and Beyond. A distill toda