Ep. 266 - 'Squatchy War Tales!

(00:02):
Big Food and Beyond with Cliff andBubo. These guys are your favorites,
so like to subscribe and read it. Five stary and met on yesterday and
listening watching lim always keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and

(00:29):
James Boobo Fay greeting's Bobo. Well, Cliff, what's happened to my friend?
Not much, just down out helpingthe folks down in a sotel.
So down here for a week?Oh wow, Okay, I didn't know
that. Okay, but this mightbe the most active spring. It's one
of the top three in the lastlike thirty five years for me in an

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amount of reportion, hearing from allover the place, like where what have
you heard? People seeing them andhearing them finding tracks and tho those tracksh
pop open up everywhere. Tell meall about it. Well, you didn't
get any more, did you?I got one yesterday? O way,
I found three potential ones. Nowthis is an area like there's a lot

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of stuff going on all throughout thisone particular area. And I've been pushing
into new roads because I've been hittingthe same old roads again and again and
they're just not producing, you know, maybe e theiy're onto me or something.
Maybe, who knows. So I'vebeen pushing into new roads. And
when I say new roads, Imean really old, unused roads that hardly
anybody ever touches or goes on anymore. And I found a pretty old print.

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Actually I found two on one road, and then one possibly but I
doubt it on another road. Butthe two that I found on this one
unused road, there's this there's aspring on this road and it kind of
drools water all down it in aboutfour or five hundred yards down past the
spring. It's still pretty moist inthat area. I did pull a track

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yesterday. I pulled a cast.It's very shallow, but it was and
forest stuff and moss and whatever else. The heel was pretty pronounced, and
there were two or three pretty fainttoes. Pretty faint, but I do
believe that there were toes. Andyou know, if I see toes in
there, I'm probably gonna cast it. So I put plaster in it.
And today at work, I wasworking on all sorts of projects. I'm

(02:17):
kind of up against the wall anda couple of things. So I asked
Keith, one of the team membersthere at the NABC to pick at it
and try to get all the duffoff it. So he got most of
it off. Tomorrow we're going toburn it out the rest of the organic
material and see if any the toesregistered at the cast. So, but
if it is what I think itis, and you know, I don't

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know, maybe it's not a print. Maybe it's just something that looks remarkably
like a print. That happens too, you know, probably far more often
than i'd like. But hopefully wehad a couple of toes in there.
But if it is a print,it might be the same fourteen inch individual
they've been tracking for a while.So we will see. Last time I
talked to you, last time wewere on we were going. The next
morning you go out to the othersarea to go see oh yeah, yeah,

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that turned out to be double steppingELK prints, which is kind of
a bum out because the pictures thatI was sent and a couple of them
looked really weird, but one ortwo of them looked really good. They're
like, oh are those toes?That's interesting? You know, not quite
sure what's going on. I wentout there, but the guys are a
rare and the guys are super cool, like really really nice people that and
just well meaning misidentified. And sureenough when I got there to the sandbar

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at the mouth of that little riverthere, they took me out on their
boat and after the spot where thething walked across the sandbar and the tide
already claimed it two more times orone more time, I think two more
times since they initially took the picturesby the time I got there and thinking,
man, this does look by petaland they are about the right size.
There are a couple of weird marksin them, and so I followed
the entire trackway over probably three hundredfour hundred yards of you know, mud

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essentially, and there were some reallywonky looking ones and some really okay looking
ones. But at the end ofthe day, what it really turned out
to be is double stepping elk thatyou know, where the hoofs are in
front or whatever. A couple ofthose suggested toes. I mean, the
pictures that they sent. A coupleof them looked just too wonky to be
anything in particular, but a coupleof them the way that the tide of

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the water kind of came in andout of the princes especially where the hoofmarks
were suggested toes. There were hundredsof these tracks, so I had a
great sample set to examine closely,and they were at the end of the
day, there were clearly elk prints. And you know, I don't begrudge
the guys. They did the bestjob they could. They photographed the best
looking ones and send them to me, and I'll always, you know,

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chase something down on the coast.I love the coast, you know,
I don't get out to the coastnearly as much as I would like.
And it was just a great day, you know, just a great day.
The guys were super cool. Oneof the guys hooked me up with
like a bunch of fresh seafood thathe had in his freezer and stuff,
and yeah, I got some crabsand everything was great. You know,
it was a great day and Ithink it'll make it I'm gonna make a

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video for our members at the museumabout it, because you know, over
the last few years, I reallyfeel like I've like leveled up as far
as a tracker goes. And againI don't profess to be a great tracker.
They've gotten way better. Well,yeah, that's the whole feel I
just feel like I've made some realprogress over the last few years. You
know, what I've really learned thelast few years is that context means so

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much. Looking at a track isone thing, but you don't look just
look at a track, you lookat everything around it. And so I'm
going to make a video, Ithink for our museum members, because you
know, they get those two videosfor being members every single month, and
that's not the podcast members. That'sdifference museum stuff about context clues, you
know, because that was a bigthing and when I was teaching children how
to read, when I was anelementary school teacher, using context clues to

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figure out what vocabulary terms mean.And it's really the same thing with tracking.
And it was the context of thissituation that really led me down that
they'd be absolute, one hundred percentcertain that these were in fact elk tracks
that have been melted out with thetide and all that other stuff. So
it was a great day, goodlearning experience, particularly for those guys and
stuff. And I've got two moreexcellent contacts on a very active area on

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the coast, so I know thatif anything else happens to them, And
dude, this I went to theguy's house. He lives between like two
super active areas. Like he literallylives on the ridge between this river valley
that a ton of stuff comes outof on one side and then the other
side of that same ridge. I'vegot like four or five reports on that

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side of the ridge too. Helives right in between, on like three
or four acres super killer spot.I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that
guy called me at any time.So yeah, super neat. It was
a great day. It was agreat day. It was a long day,
but you know, some seafood atthe end of it, and made
a couple of good friends and allthat other stuff, and so pretty stoked.
Well, okay, with not muchelse to talk about it, why

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don't we go straight to our guest. This is going to be a great
episode. Pretty excited about this.This is the author of Haunted War Tales,
True Military Encounters with the Bizarre,Paranormal and Unexplained. RC. Bramhall,
RC, thank you so much fora little bit of time aside to
come talk to Cliff and the BobsMan. Really excited about this one.
Thank you for coming on. Thankyou so much for having me on I've
been a fan for years. Youguys watched the show, of course,

(07:10):
but actually I have enjoyed the podcastmore so. I feel like I've gotten
to know you guys, you know, even more so through this medium.
So it's been great. Hey,Arsue, thanks for joining us. I
agreed. I think the podcast hasbeen on the show too. Hopefully it'll
be longer lasting. Can imagine we'redoing this for nine years. We have
to have you on two or threetimes RC if that's the case. Hey,
hey, hey, that's a goal, a personal goal. Now,

(07:32):
speaking of which, is this yourfirst book or is this just a long
one of many? It is myfirst book. I've been a writer for
years, been in the screenwriting world, so I made this jump into nonfiction.
And I'm also right, you know, horror war is kind of my
brand, so I'm a horror warfiction writer. Also, now you said

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you're a screenwriter, you have youdone anything that we might have seen or
No? Unfortunately I haven't. Oh, I'm so sorry to bring it up.
I have lots of unproduced scripts.Yeah, you know, I got
paid a few times and adapted afew novels. But yeah, that's you
know, it's a frustrating world.That's why I kind of was tired of
beating my head against the wall there. You know, I've collected these stories
for years being an Army vet andstarted to realize after some time, like,

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wow, I might have enough hereto start, you know, putting
a collection together and actually being ableto classify all these different stories into kind
of different you know, realms.And of course Bigfoot, as you can
imagine, is a huge one.When and where did you serve? I
served from nineteen eighty eight to ninetytwo. I was with fifth Infantry Division
most of the time. I wasan intelligence sergeant and finished up with twenty

(08:43):
of Special Forces Group in their MilitaryIntelligence Attachment, a couple of years in
the National Guard while I was incollege. And did you serve overseas or
did you do it all domestically oryeah, all domestic. I was,
you know, involved in intelligence,especially for Panama. We had a brigade
down there from our fifth Infantry wheneverPanama broke loose, so we actually had

(09:07):
a unit in combat down there innineteen eighty nine. When did you first
realize that there's some sort of crossI'm assuming like a lot of people like
us, like kind of love monstersand the whole Patterson Goodwin background in search
of and all that jazz. That'sa big assumption, of course, But
when did you realize there's some sortof crossover between the military aspect of your
life and your love of you know, monsters and unknown weird stuff. For

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sure. I don't know if youguys were ever comic kids, but if
you remember, you know, likeDC had a line of great war comics
right back in the eighties, andone of their comics was called Weird War
and it literally was like an anthologyevery month of kind of short stories that
you know, mashed up different timeperiods, different wars, with horror,

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you know, with ghost or zombiesor different kind of things going on.
So at a very young age thatjust I love that mashup, you know,
and just always had that interest,and so join the army. I
kind of always knew that was thefirst step I was going to make in
life. I had an uncle,not really an uncle, you know,

(10:11):
one of his cousins you call uncle, who was a Green Beret, had
a big influence on me, forsure. But it's just always been interested
in anything strange, right, mysteriesunsolved mysteries. And then even being in
intelligence, you know, there wasalways some rumors and some weird stuff that
would come through from time to time, especially with you know, the whole

(10:31):
psychic warfare programs. You might knowa little bit about that stuff. Like
the movie The Men Who Stare AtGoats right, was based on that book.
That was kind of a take onit. But a lot of that
stuff, you know, like honestlythat like that whole episode of a guy
staring at a goat, you know, and stopping its heart mentally, that
kind of stuff was you know,it was out there in the intelligence world.

(10:52):
There were guys working in that field, so more of that kind of
stuff. And then of course youknow aliens, UFOs always you know,
unidentified kind of you know, aircraftor things in the ocean even and you
know, I avoided all that inthe book. It's just because I feel
like, you know, so muchof that is done already. And my

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point with this book is to reallywhen you read it, to find stories
you've never come across before, youknow, like that was my goal.
Is to find stuff that's not outthere already. And it's kind of been
retread one hundred times, you know, increasingly difficult in the big foux world
that we live in, no doubt. But you know a lot of people
aren't aware of the international aspect,right that you guys are always trying to

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push that that this isn't just anAmerican thing. It's not a North American
phenomenon. It's a worldwide phenomenon.And you know, I've got several different
international military reports that involve Harry Hominid's. Yeah, it seems like several chapters
of this book. And this isnot like some sort of like light book
either, I mean, what isit. It's probably over two hundred pages,

(11:58):
two hundred fifty pages maybe somewhere inthere too, at least two full
chapters or chalk full of this stuff. Although I will say, you know,
you're kind enough to send me acopy of the book. I've not
got into it, but I havehad a chance to thumb through it a
bit. And I'll tell you what, I don't think I've ever read a
better title of a chapter than aNazi and necronomic con the Cannibal Core and

(12:20):
Wandering Souls. Awesome. I've gotsome confidence on that, thank you.
Yeah, holy smokes, Like,I don't know what this is about.
But I know that I might justread it out of order. Yeah,
and you can do that. That'swhat's cool. At the book. You
can literally pick it up any almostanywhere and just start reading a page and
hopefully you won't want to put itdown, you know. Okay, So
okay, So you're interested in theDC comic the Weird War series, And

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by the way, I just googlethat. There's holy smokes, there's a
lot of stuff. This is rad. Yeah, that's really cool. I
know we have a fair number ofcomic book nerds that listen to this thing.
I'm looking at you, Brandon andvarious other folks. There's a good
number of people who love this kindof thing. I had no idea there
was so much of this out there. So that kind of kind of set
the stage a little bit for yourfuture life. And lo and behold,

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you enter the army, kind oflike fulfilling your own prophecy. When you
were working and he dealt with someof the weirder things and being in intelligence
and all that jazz. Were youstationed on a base where stuff happened like
Fort Lewis or something like that.I mean, was anything happening at any
of the bases where you actually hadto work. Well, what's interesting about
that. I was my main youknow, most of my time in the

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Army was spent at Fort Poke,Louisiana, right considered the arm pit of
the Army. And I was happybecause when I got there, you know,
the drinking age was eighteen in Louisiana, so that equaled everything out for
me. That's why I was doground of course coming down there at Fort
Pole. Well, that's what Iwas gonna say. So, I don't
know if you're familiar with like talesfrom the grid Square. It's a guy

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who has an Instagram account. Ithink his name is Nick Worton or that's
the name he uses. But he'sa current member of the military. So
he was actually stationed at Fort Poke, and you know, like has a
lot of incidents and things that havehappened within his time there. But when
I was there, unfortunately, nonothing I've ever heard of. Now,

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of course, you know bigfoot inLouisiana. Yes, you know, outside
of the base, I had heardrumors and different things, especially as you
know, the Texas Louisiana border realhot spot and that's kind of where Fort
Polk is kind of like right onthe edge of that. But you have
Fort poke Is. There's a lotof weird stuff happening there now, but
not when I was there. You'regood to Fort Lewis. I've never been

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there. But that's a big partof the domestic Disturbances chapter, of course,
because you know so many bigfoot reportsand just so many interesting rumors,
even of you know, guys whoare stationed there, like Ranger Cadre,
you know that run Ranger School,and just some of the reports out of
there, guys saying that. Youknow, even when you go through trainings,

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a lot of times guys will tellyou, hey, like I don't
care if you believe in this ornot. You know, they're out there,
and if you do come across one, do not engage, you know,
avoid it at all costs. Andwe've had things happen in the past,
and you know, guys laugh itoff and then they go out there
and have some kind of strange experience, you know, and wonder what the
hell is going on if it's likesome kind of psychological trick that they're trying

(15:16):
to play on them, where youknow, somethings are actually out there following
them around so yeah, Fort lewisprobably the hottest area, right, like
when we're talking about Bigfoot sightings.As you can imagine, they officially refer
to one part of the training coursenow as sub Squatch Alley up there.
Yeah, there's several certain areas ofthe base that are pretty famous, you

(15:37):
know, like I don't remember thename. If there's a certain pond on
base that's known also as kind ofa hot spot. Stay tuned for more
Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages.
The museums located not too far fromthere, like maybe hour and a

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half two hours, and so weget a fair number of military folks coming
through. And if they tell metheir their their station there or were stationed
there, I always ask them onehundred percent of the time, I ask
them, so you ever been blahblah blah, you know you've been told
about these things? And the answeris yes, probably about I'm guessing about
thirty to forty percent of the time. Wow, that's pretty high. Yeah,
it is pretty high considering that thesethings are aren't real supposedly, right,

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but yet there they are. Likemost people, you know, like
I said, sixty to seventy percentsay no, no, they never really
mentioned it or whatever. And sometimesthey say, yeah, well I know
one guy who said he saw oneor something like that. But several people
have told me straight out says,oh no, no. Before operations,
we were warned about these things andthey said, don't worry about them,
just ignore them. Go you know, nothing to see here sort of thing

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exactly that that lake is called CatLake. Just so we know Cat Lake.
You know, that's part of therange of training area. It's notorious
for having been the layer of aparticular sas squats for several years. Now,
is that in your book? Yes? Very cool. So what other
bases and areas in this country beforewe go abroad here? Do you mention

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and go deep into into the bookhere? Honestly, I could have picked
any one of them as I didmy research. You know, you can
find bigfoot reports on almost every militarybase. And you know, when you
look at the reasons, I reallythink you know one of my personal theories,
and I think you guys may haveeven mentioned this before. When you
think about, you know, ifthis species is thriving, right, if

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this is actually where their numbers aregrowing, when you look at areas that
are protected, you know, nationalparks, wilderness management areas, huge sections
of military bases. These areas arehugely undisturbed, right, I mean there,
you know, it is the perfectarea if you were an animal that

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was looking to hide somewhere that hada liverable habitat that you're not going to
encounter that many people. You know, they're perfect areas. Right When you
look at most military bases, they'rehuge, but almost every one of them
backs up too, you know,more huge wilderness areas, whether they're national
parks and some kind of designated areaor state. So, you know,

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just talking about massive amounts of land, you know, like really undisturbed wilderness.
And so when you start looking around, it's like every base has their
own war, you know, basicallyeverywhere but Hawaii. You know, I
got invinted by these guys. Hewas a range master at a base in
Oklahoma as an artillery I know,they did a lot of artillery training there

(18:33):
was like I talked to him likeseveral times. I never made it out
there, but he had a lotof stories from his days. I know
which we're talking about, but Iforget the name. It's the home of
the Artillery. Of course, sealis that in your book? No,
that's not when I included we've gottwenty nine palms. The Marine Corps Air
Ground Combat Center in California. That'spretty wild. There's so many encounters there.

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They have, like, you know, very a vast range of nicknames,
from the Sierra Highway Devil to theMohave Sandman to the Yucaman. And
it kind of backs up to theJoshua Tree National Park and that Majave National
Preserve and then even the Armies NationalTraining Center. So you have this huge
area and they've even you know,enough reports almost seem like there's almost a

(19:21):
pattern of their movement between these areas, you know. And something really interesting
too. One of the Native Americantribes in the San Bernardino Mountain region called
them talk We's. I think Talkweits. You ever heard of that? Yeah?
Absolutely there. When I was inBoy Scouts, before I was asked
to not be in Boy Scouts anylonger by the Boy Scouts, I would

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have to go to summer camp upthere, and it was I went literally
went to Camp Talkuitz, which youknow, that was the camp I went
to, and I guess there's acreek in a valley out there, and
little talk about foreshadowing. I mean, had I known like that was what
it was named after, yeah,yeah, maybe I would have enjoyed Boy
Scouts a little bit more. Yeah. So that's one of the interesting things,

(20:07):
is you know that that like there'sa canyon and a water phone named
that and to the local indigenous people, that's where these things kind of originated.
You know, it's one of theirfavorite haunts. Was that area.
It's kind of Mount San Jacinto,their palm springs. Yeah, kind of
kind of a fair amount of stuffstill happens down there in that general vicinity
for southern California. It's a hotspotfor sure, Edward's Air Force Base in

(20:30):
California. A lot of stranger,cryptid behavior there, more like almost like
alien stuff or kind of strange monsters, like three toed kind of things.
You know, you're probably I'm sureyou're familiar with Doug Trapp. Oh yeah,
yeah, yeah, sure, sure. I've not interviewed him, but
I although he'd be a good interview, he might be a good person get

(20:51):
on the podcast. Yeah. SoI got a lot of stuff from his
research of you know, like lookinginto desert sasquatches and talking to Air Force
veterans. One of the cool thingsabout that base is I came across like
a newspaper article and it was areunion of like the Air Force police that
were stationed there. They were calledthe Desert Rats, and it was like

(21:12):
guys that were stationer between seventy threeand seventy nine and you know, being
retired and all these years later.That's what's cool is a lot of these
ex military guys, you know,they're willing to start sharing this stuff when
they're not you know, in dangerof being called crazy or losing their rank
or anything. And you know,so I came across this like newspaper report.

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It was really cool reading all theseguys like basically telling all these you
know, cryptid stories. It justit was a regular newspaper article about the
reunion. So there's a lot ofthat stuff in there, just you know,
seeing a lot of orbs, strangelights, and then like I say,
some kind of bizarre eight foot timebetween eight and ten foot creature.
Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton. That'sanother hotspot. I go to Fort Carson,

(21:57):
Colorado, Well what are you gettingout of? Like I haven't heard
much recently. I mean, it'sso think there was a long dead zone,
Like I didn't heard anything out ofPenalton from like the early eighties until
like the two thousands. Yeah,the same thing. Most of the stuff
I have as older. It's likefrom the eighties, and a lot of
these places that you're mentioning recently,Edwards Air Force Base very desert like in

(22:21):
a lot of ways, you know, and some of are straight out desert,
like I think Edward's Air Force Spaceis literally just desert for the most
part, but there's mountains nearby andalso river valleys that go through a lot
of these. I know Bobo andI have both done footprint investigations when we
were in southern California in the Mohaveriver bed, and what we found,
or at least what i've I thinkBobo would be in agreement with this.
Most of the stuff there in thoseenvironments happened during the winter time. Did

(22:47):
you maybe I know this wasn't thefocus of your book, but or you
know, I think it was forthe most part. Did you notice that
they tended to be more in thein the colder time of year. Yeah,
I don't really. I didn't lookat that necessarily. I'd have to
go back and look at my reportsand see, we don't get break short
reports consistently, like you know,around what other cryptid or what other phenomena

(23:11):
it gets reported, like not justlike in like localiz of there's like across
the board, like North America.Well, you know, obviously a lot
of Hank teams, right, Almostall the bases have their own ghost stories,
kind of their own lore. ForLeavenworth, it's probably one of the
most haunted bases with the amount oflike different stories and encounters going on there.
But yeah, not any necessarily likea cryptid necessarily associated with a particular

(23:37):
base, you know, like adog man or moth man or anything else
different. Almost all sasquatch. Wekind of touched the base on a lot
of the no no pun intended.I guess touch base on a lot of
the local bases here domestically, Butyou have a lot of stuff from overseas
bases as well, and from placesthat I personally don't know very much about
the Harry hormonoids in that area,even though I obviously I know that they're

(24:00):
there or I've heard stories, butI've never really looked into them, you
know, just because probably I probablywill never go to Afghanistan, but yet
you have a significant part of yourchapter deals with the Afghany Harry harmanoids can
tell us a little bit about what'sgoing on out there, Yeah for sure.
So, you know, kind ofstarting with the Almas, right,

(24:22):
kind of Central Asia's version of sometype of you know, almost more human
like Neanderthal rather than a neo giant, kind of like Sasquatch or a Yawi.
So, you know, I talka lot about that, so many
Russian reports going all the way backto like the Russian Civil War early nineteen
hundreds, all the way up throughmore modern times. And what I try

(24:45):
to show in there is, youknow, to again the skeptic or someone
who doesn't really know much about this, is, you know, the actual
history backing this stuff up. Andhow when we look at the remnants of
Neanderthal settle and the places we find, you know, like kind of the
last refuges of these Neanderthals are thesame areas where these Almas are still being

(25:07):
reported being seen, you know,So is it that far to stretch that
you know, some of these thingsmay have retreated into these most inhospitable places
in the world. When you lookacross from the Rockies, the Colorado Rockies
all the way to the Hindu Kushor the Premiere in Takistan, or the

(25:30):
all Tea Mountain range in West Mongolia. You know, it's the same type
of environments where these things are seen, right and especially in Russia, you
know the presence of these Neanderthal likesettlements, the remnants that these archaeologists find,
it just really backs up. It'salways in the same areas that these
things are being seen by locals.And so when we move into Afghanistan,

(25:55):
you know, several encounters our guyshad with things that really are unexplainable.
The giants. Yeah, one ofthe most interesting ones I came across was,
you know, it's kind of asquad was overlooking a village, an
Afghan village overnight, kind of watchingfor activity, and you know, through
their thermals they spot a heat signaturethat's across the valley about the same elevation

(26:21):
as they are on the on themountain across the valley, and it's so
huge of a heat signature that theguy who sponts it figures it's a group
of people. You know, ithas to be a group of people that
kind of sitting huddled together. Sohe wakes up the rest of the squad.
You know, hey, we needto watch this because it seems like
there's a group over there. Let'syou know, keep an eye on and

(26:41):
see what they're doing. And sothe whole squad has eyes on this thing,
watching it through their thermals and asyou know, that means there's something
there, right, regardless of whatthe belief is, that heat signature is
proving something was there. And asthey watch and expecting this kind of group
to break up, they see thisheat signature kind of stand up as one

(27:03):
thing and like walk over the crestin the mountain. And then another encounter
guys had they actually saw this thingkind of scaling up the side of a
hill, and you know that actuallyin daylight, like had a good eye
on it, and the guys thoughtit was some you know, an ape
or some kind of gorilla. Andthey said it was moving up the side
of this mountain so fast it wasimpossible, you know, it was almost

(27:25):
like impossible to understand as they watchedit, and you know, one of
the guy's jokes, I did agorilla like escape a local zoo or what
is this and kind of when theytalked to the locals about it, they
were real matter of fact, like, oh, you saw a barman u,
you know, so they call himover there, and you know,
just going into the locals belief.Another really cool thing I came across was

(27:48):
another you know, kind of aninterview with the local villager there, and
he just talked so matter of factlyabout these things. As you know,
his grandparents always knew about them,they saw them as he was growing up
at different times, and even tellsthe story how he was out one day
and actually saw one with a juvenilelike holding hands and yeah, like how

(28:10):
special the moment that was for him. And he basically says, like,
you know, they're mountain people likewe are. We leave them alone.
They only come down when times aretough, kind of food scarce, you
know, that's when they'll see themkind of around the settlements. And just
a matter of fact kind of attitudeby the locals about these things is what
really gets in what about the Giantof Canada Heart So yeah, that I

(28:30):
included that in the book. Youknow, I find that story kind of
fantastical. Right, but I hadto address it because it's definitely out there
on the Internet and there are severaldifferent individuals who claim to have different parts
in that story. So and thenI really talk about giants too, because
that's another belief in Afghan culture isthe giants are real. I talk about

(28:53):
like an American reporter was kind ofembedded with some Afghan soldiers and policemen and
she pointed out that, you know, her interpreter even was college educated,
just to point out that these weren'tlike you know, bill billies. It
was a group of professional guys,and they like kind of kind of came
across a grave site that was likeimmensely sized, and she made a comment

(29:18):
like you know, wow, that'skind of crazy, like you know,
who's buried there. And they toldher like it was a giant, you
know, and she's like, oh, okay, yeah, sometimes people,
you know, do grow pretty tall, could be seven or eight feet tall.
And they're like, no, youknow, like a real giant,
like a separate race. They're nothumans like we are. And you know,
they got all mad at her,and like even the interpreter started yelling

(29:40):
at her. It was like,you know, just because you Americans don't
think these things are real, youknow, like our grandparents lived and some
of them were still around, youknow, like got all in the face
and stuff. So it's very It'spart of the Afghan culture over there.
They believe in this stuff. Staytuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
and Bogo will be right back afterthese messages. I'm glad you brought up

(30:07):
the Neanderthal thing, and it alsoyou you address the prevalence of other hominins.
I think that's really cool. Ipersonally have a footprint cast from that
general area from an Alma. DoctorMeltrium gave it to me and he recently
when I was in Ohio, heshowed me a three D scanned print.
Some people went over I think itwas Coffin's collection over there, and they

(30:30):
they they scanned it and then theythree D printed it when they got back
to the States. And again it'sit's Ananderthal basically, is what you're seeing
in Theandertal footprint or it's it's veryvery similar, I should say. But
we have no information about what aboutthese other hominins. Unfortunately, we don't
know if we have footprints of likehomolog LONGI or anything like that. And

(30:53):
a recent news article indicates that thosehomolonge might actually be Homodenis ovan, which
I think is a fascinating possibility becausewe have so few Homo denisovan fossils.
So something's going on over there andthe answer is somehow related to human evolution.
And I think this is absolutely supercool and fantastic. Definitely. Yeah,

(31:15):
I really Avan Sanderson is getting isgetting his due now, you know,
suggesting that there were all these differentspecies all over the planet seemed ridiculous,
of course back in the sixties,but science has proven it. Yeah,
now it's not so much the casethat it's ridiculous. And I think
it's really neat that you address allthat in the book. So yeah,
and I even I remember from oneof your shows, honestly, is it

(31:36):
Patterson? Oh, Gareth Patterson.Gareth Patterson, the author of Secret Beyond
the Secret Elephants, right, uhhuh, yeah, I just mentioned him
in the book too. You know, just again that these are respected scientists,
you know, and if you thinkthat they're going to make something up
like that, you know, you'rebarking up the rong tree. But no,
so we've kind of taken a lookat Afghanistan and that general area of

(32:00):
the world. But you have aconsiderable section on the rock capes of Vietnam,
which which I just love. Myfather knew a witness. When my
father was alive, he would goto the y and work out in one
of his friends that you know,they just kind of became friends by working
out the why together. He hadseen one of these things, and that
really impressed my father. I think, in fact, my dad heard that

(32:21):
story before. A close friend ofmy father's came out and said that he
had or she had seen a sasquatch, which kind of turned the page on
our relationship a little bit. It'snot like we had a bad relationship,
but he always knew his kid wasweird, but at some point it kind
of came around. It's like,oh, maybe he clips up to something.
Actually that's pretty cool, I meanand real and instead of just weird.
Right. Yeah, But he knewthis rock ape witness back in the

(32:45):
day. I guess he saw onewhile during a firefight, I guess in
his Vietnam service back in the war. But they were busy not you know,
trying not to get shot, sothey didn't pay much attention to it
at the time, how many ordid you have a chance at all to
speak to Vietnam vets who observe theseduring their service or did you get most
of the resource material from other booksor articles or other means. Yeah,

(33:07):
that's I got to speak to acouple of vets in person. Yeah,
so that was a really exciting thing. And that's one of the things I'm
proud about in the book because Ithink I have collected more rock ape stories
than anyone has yet, you know. So it's interesting when you go all
the way back to like French explorerseven you know that the indigenous people there,

(33:27):
I think they call them the butttoots or new he run kind of
means for forest people. So youknow, there's a long history of these
things being there, and even someFrench explorers that accounts. There's an eighteen
twenty account from a ship captain.Then there's another one in like nineteen forty
seven a French officer who encountered one, So you know, these things even

(33:52):
before we got there, the lorewas kind of around. And again when
you start looking at the areas thatwe went into in Vietnam were you know,
unexplored areas, Like a lot ofthose jungles were areas that outside of
the indigenous people living there, noone had really explored or gone into.
And the interesting thing about the RockAphenomenon is their behavior. How they seem

(34:15):
like very angry about being disturbed byhumans and almost like you know, very
aggressive in their response to that.And that's why they were called rock apes,
right, because they reportedly threw rocksat the troops a lot whenever they'd
kind of come into their areas,which, as you know, is kind
of a pretty common bigfoot behavior also, right. But yeah, one of

(34:38):
the veterans I got to talk to, his name is Mark, you know,
just on a side note, it'slike awesome. One of the things
about doing this book that you know, sometimes you don't even think about this
right when you interview people, andI'm sure you've experienced that, just how
exciting it is for them. Youknow. He sent me an email when
he got the book, and justseeing his story in there, you know,

(35:00):
almost made me tear up. Itwas so exciting for this guy and
to know that, you know,his service was going to be remembered.
Him and his family was so happyabout that. But it just really cool.
Uh, so many accounts that it'shard to ignore. You know,
it seems like such a bizarre ideathat you know, these things were that
aggressive and kind of unafraid of ourtroops. But it's like report after report

(35:22):
of encounters with these things and themkind of shaking their fists at the soldiers
and you know, throwing things atthem or even like charging them sometimes.
But they seem to be a littlebit shorter, a little bit smaller than
a big foot. Did you hearyou talk to you guys talking about my
My friend's dad was a ranger overthere, you know, recount ranger doing

(35:43):
the rolls, and he said henever actually telled them, but his best
friend and from high school that wentinto the uh ranger of school with him,
was on a different platun that hesaid that some guys got blown up,
actually that they would grow grenades.They wouldn't know if they or rock
apes or like VC or whatever enemytroops they'd throw and they said that there's

(36:06):
rock ape ended up having to likefold the pins wait two seconds in through
it because the rock as should pickthem up and throw them back. Yep,
yep, yep. I got acouple of reports exactly about that.
In fact, there was even certainunits that were told like don't throw your
nades, like when you go throughthis area. Yeah, if these apes
were so aggressive, did people takeshots at them and kill some of these

(36:28):
things? And if so, whathappened to the bodies exactly? And that's
what I wonder too, because yes, there's a couple of reports of you
know, them finding dead ones,like in the morning, you know,
like something would trip the trip offlair. They think somebody's you know,
trying to probe the wire and lightit up. Next day they go out
and find like a shot of youknow ape that nobody kind of knows what
the hell it is. You know, where's the pitchers, right, like

(36:51):
where's some part evidence of that kindof stuff. A couple counts too,
of like booby traps that they hadset up they kind of went off and
they'd find, you know, bodiesof these rock apes have blown up.
There was a special forces team theywere kind of laid up waiting in ambush
and they heard like this mysterious kindof like choking and gurgling noise. They

(37:15):
kept hearing for like three days,like three nights, and it couldn't locate
what this thing was, and sothat when they moved down on the fourth
day, they actually found this decomposingape man what they called it, nearly
blown like completely in half by whatappeared to be a land mine. But
they said, you know, they'vedescribed it. Said it had shorter hair
in its head. I set backan inch and a half from a prominent

(37:37):
brown line, a flat nose,long arms, with large and lengthy fingers.
They said, one hand was stillwrapped around the tree bench of his
clutching when it had died, andthe teeth were like flat, well form
molders with long pointed canines. Yeah. So you know, are you guys
aware of any recent sightings of newerungs? Me? So that's the other

(38:00):
thing, you know, like,what's happened then, what's happened in our
Vietnam expedition for finding Bigfoot? Idon't remember if we had any recent witnesses,
you know, I think they wereat least a couple of years old,
or you know, even further thanthat in the past. And I
know that from my time out inthe field, we didn't run across any
of those things or have any youknow, noises back at us or anything

(38:22):
like that. But we did runacross some people living out there. Apparently
there are I think, Rember,my memory serves. I think there are
thirteen different ethnic linguistic groups living inthe jungles of Vietnam, away from society
and cities and all that sort ofstuff. And I found a little humorous
actually because where I'm out there doingmy big foot stuff, howling and hoopin

(38:44):
and stuff, and I heard similarcalls. But it turns out that's exactly
what the local people do who livein the woods, in these little villages.
They go woo does all locate eachother. That's how they go about
their lives, locating each other.So none of my tricks, you know,
my bag of tricks was actually wascompletely useless. You know, out
of the woods, you actually sawa couple you saw some of those forest

(39:07):
people. I did, I did, I did. They're were in like
a knockoff Adidas and stuff like that, right, I mean the Adida shirts
and things. But yeah, totally. I saw some of it at a
distance and they kept their distance too. We saw some of those giant bee
hives at night that are found inthe top parts of these huge caves and
whatnot that they have over there,and they were out doing that sort of

(39:28):
stuff. So in other parts ofthe world, I saw that you devoted
a small chapter or a small subchapter, I guess, to the Solomon
Islands, which I thought was reallyinteresting because I'm a fan of hominins and
unknown hominoids in general, all throughoutIndonesia and Papua New Guinea and the whole
nine, everything from the Ring Pindeckin one corner all the way down to
Well. I knew about a coupleof things on Papua New Guinea, but

(39:50):
I didn't know about the Solomon Islands, so that was fascinating. Now,
is there a military base out thereor something, or were these things found?
And what are they? This isfrom World War two and these are
actually Japanese Army accounts Aguadalcanal, youknow, one of the famous battles of
World War two that we fought,what nineteen forty two to forty three,

(40:15):
So again interesting. The local indigenousI'll try to pronounce it right. I
think it's the Luna Sudahuri tribe.They've always had stories that these things exist
and they call them the Mumu myou but they're sasquatch like huge creatures,
long black, brown reddish hair.The kids are always told stories, you

(40:37):
know, that they'll abduct you andthey're cannibals, so they're kind of scary
to the locals. Now these thingsare like described as being true giants,
like almost ridiculous, like ten tofifteen feet tall, red eyes, flat
noses. They kind of resemble.There's some similar creatures in Malaysian folklore known
as the Irang mahwas or irang thatare said didn't have it like the jungle

(41:01):
jahor in Malaysia. So you know, there's even like some similar creatures on
other islands. But supposedly the Japanesewhen they infiltrated all the kind of Guadalcanal's
forest, they ran into these things. They said. There's even a report
of like a squad being attacked byone that had like a crew club.
They were reported to like snap thicktrees and branches in half to display their

(41:24):
power. They'd scare the Japanese atnight with these loud fulish you know,
like whaling, and so the Japanesekind of called them the Solomon giants.
That's what they kind of came tobe known. As. And then another
really interesting one from the Japanese theYuku Islands, which are part of the
Okinawa chain. A very short primatelike commented that they found there that they

(41:47):
called the kiji muna ki j im u n a. But these things
were described as being like the sizeof a three or four year old human,
to the point where one soldier actionkind of went on the beach,
like saw it from behind and thoughtit was a child, and then when
it turned around, you know,he realized it wasn't. Then it took
off. And they claimed that thesethings would like, you know, look

(42:13):
for seafood at night on the beach, like you know, looking for crabs,
and in the morning they'd find likethese piles of empty shells, and
that was always like a sign ofthat there was a kijimuna nearby, you
know. They just like our guysin Vietnam. The Japanese soldiers saw these
things return home try to attract somescientific interests and going back and looking into
it, and you know, werelaughed at, which I always find interesting,

(42:37):
right, like to be laughed atpeople who weren't there to tell you
what you experienced, you know,just talking cryptozoology in the Solomon Islands.
Like twenty seventeen, they found anew species. There were always legends about
this, like giant possum like ratthat lived in trees and it could crack
open coconuts with its teeth, andit was proven true. They found the

(43:00):
creature in twenty seventeen. It's anew species that they classified. Yeah,
so again, there's lots of newanimals to discover out there. Stay tuned
for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliffand Bogo. We'll be right back after
these messages. Coming back to theUnited States a little bit. Do you

(43:25):
have anything here about sas I'm sureyou have some ghost stuff in here.
We'll get to that probably in thebonus episode or whatever. But do you
have any Sasquatch stuff associated with Gettysburgbecause it's kind of a well known Bigfoot
spot. No, I don't.I wish I had come across that.
Yeah. I think back in theday Moneymaker ran an expedition in the area
or something, and I've heard heardquite a few stories from that general area,

(43:49):
So it's curious if you're going tohave that in there. No.
Now, I open the book withmy own strange experience there Oh, what
happened to you? Yeah, youknow, nothing that exciting, But I
just relate a story that you know, And I've been there many many times
because my stepfather and my mom livednear Gettysburg, so I spent a lot
of time out there and never hadanything happen. And then I was passing

(44:14):
through the area and the hotel Istayed out was near like Hanover, the
north side of Hanover Road. TheEast Calvary Field is what it's called,
and it's, you know, amore remote part of the battlefield that's kind
of even separated that a lot ofpeople don't even know it's there to go
visit. And it's where the bigCalvary battle went down between Custer and Jeb

(44:34):
Stewart. They're kind of two ofmy favorite generals. So I went out
there one morning and got there rightwhen the park was opening, and literally
was like the only person in thepark. I was by myself in that
section, so, you know,just kind of moving through and I know
that battle real well. And ifyou've been to Gettysburg, you know how
it looks exactly the same. Youknow, it's still it's not that hard

(44:58):
to have to imagine the battle becauseyou can see the geography in front of
you. So I was kind ofmoving through and stopped at a place,
and you know, I was justreally into it, thinking about what it
was like to fight there and whathad happened. And I had been sitting
in my car for probably about fiveminutes, you know, the car was
off, I was in park levelground, had been there, just sitting,

(45:19):
and all of a sudden, youknow, my whole car was like
pushed so much that you know,like I physically like moved in my seat
and I thought someone had literally likepulled in and tapped me, you know,
which I was like, what thehell, Like, no one else
is even here? Why did youhave to park that close to me?
And when I turned around, nobody, you know, nothing was there.
So I was like, okay,like because I know I felt it,

(45:43):
drove on down further, had afew more you know, got out of
the car and did a few morethings, and then the whole time I
was taking photographs throughout the park,and the very last photograph I took,
you know, I never had aphotograph like this happened to me. And
it's hard to see in the book. I included the look, but like
you know, black and white,and the way it just printed you can't

(46:04):
really see, but there was ayou know, there was a shape there,
and there's like a strange you know, like kind of energy line through
the camera through the photo, andmy camera's never done that any other picture
before, so it's just interesting.You know, like that coupled with the
push, it just made me wonder, like, you know, was somebody
else out there with me that theywell, they routinely do like ghost trips

(46:25):
or something to Gettysburg, don't they. Yeah, all the time. It's
it's considered to be a huge paranormalhotspot. That's just one of my personal
theories about battlefields, you know,when there's so much emotion expended. I'm
not necessarily someone who believes that hauntingsare like an actual spirit, right,

(46:45):
I kind of tend more to thebelief that it's like an energy imprint.
You know, when there's that muchemotion expended, how much sudden death,
that much just turmoil you could seewhere you know, that much energy expended,
it could leave a physical impression onthat geography forever. And that's kind
of my impression that when we seethose things, it's more of like witnessing

(47:07):
a time loop or like a moviethat's replaying, and sometimes for some reason
we can perceive that, you know, And so it just makes sense that
battle feels like Gettysburg or even inthe book, like a place in Afghanistan
it's called O P Rock Observation PointRock. That is one of the most
convincing, like haunteens I've ever comeacross, you know, when you have

(47:30):
numerous eyewitnesses saying the same things happen, that's what always makes me pause.
So I think we're probably going toget into the more paranormal weird stuff during
the bonus episodes here, but I'mkind of keeping an eye on the clock
right now, and I don't wantto. I want to make sure that
we don't go too much over here. But think about some of the some
of these stories and some of thewitnesses you've had face to faces with,

(47:51):
you know, and then the emotionsthat they've conveyed to you. So maybe
if you can share maybe one ortwo stories that really stuck with you,
you know, that really kind ofmoved you in some sort of way,
and share those with us as kindof a parting thought. I guess we
saw a little bit of time andnot rushing out the door or anything.
Do's gonna be wrong? But really, I mean because writing a book like

(48:12):
this about the military and some ofthese battlefields and dealing with witnesses in general,
it can be imagine a pretty movingexperience. What really stuck with you
from the writing process of this bookas far as personal stories goes, I
think one of like kind of justkind of brought some fear in to me
because it's one of the theories I'vethought about often is whenever, you know,

(48:35):
we think these things, they disappearright like they're even track ways where
people see it, and then likethey look and it's gone. One of
my theories is they might you know, be up in trees as we know,
like we as humans rarely look up, you know, we rarely look
up. And I think sometimes thatthat's what's going on. So I remember

(48:55):
a story is from ap Hill fora ap Hill in Virginia, and it
was some marines. So they weredropped up by helicopter. They're out on
maneuvers. It was three marines pullingguard duty. It's kind of you know,
early morning, like O two hundredoh four hundred. But they said

(49:15):
the woods got real quiet, andhe kind of looked up from his seated
position on the ground. He sawthis huge shape like standing in the tree
right above him, you know,and it like stood out real clear against
the sky. It was about thirtyfeet away, and he saw it kind
of holding onto the tree with thislong arm and it's you know, he
could tell it was like seven toeight feet tall, but he couldn't see

(49:38):
where its feet ended, so hewasn't even sure how tall it was.
So he watched this thing like justfrozen in terror as it kind of moved
real silently from that tree in frontof him to the next one, like
just vanished from sight. So kindof the next morning he asked everybody else
in the unit, just you know, not being specific, but like kind
of saying, any guys see somethingin the trees last night, you know,

(50:01):
And another one of the marines waslike affirmative, I did, and
he kind of described the same thinghe had seen, this manlike figure that
he watched quietly moving like around thetrees around their position, you know.
So they all kind of confirmed they'dseen this bizarre thing and it insertable being
canment just used in those old drovetrees kind of as a quiet way to
get around. So that kind ofjust stuck with me because I think seeing

(50:23):
something like that, you know,it would have been pretty scary kind of
look up and see this man standingin the tree above you. Yeah,
it's definitely a high creep factor.And it's also a reminiscent of the copra,
which is one of the local namesin the Philippines for these giant sasquash
like things that they apparently they standup or hang out up in trees and
or you know, the mythology aroundthem says that they smoke a cigar because

(50:46):
you can see the red embers burning, which it might be like their eye
reflection or something like that. Whoknows what's actually going on. Yeah,
it's interesting how there are so manyechoes, you know, of other traditions,
you know, from all throughout thatgeneral area and all stuff on military
basis down in the Philippines. Superinteresting stuff. Well, you know what,

(51:07):
I think, I think it's timeto bring this segment of our interview
to a close and everything we can. We can continue on in the members
section and get into the really weirdstuff, which is always a lot of
fun, of course, but beforewe split, Where can people buy Haunted
War Tales, True Military Encounters withthe Bizarre paranel when I'm explained by RC
Bramhall, for sure, I meanit's literally available everywhere. But honestly,

(51:30):
I recommend that I really like peopleto go to their local independent bookstore and
ask for them to order it,and I feel like that helps the local
bookstore and then usually they'll also orderanother copy right to have on the shelf
once they see if somebody's interested init. So honestly, that's the way
I like to suggest it. Butyou can follow me at RC Warrior Poet

(51:51):
on Instagram. You can find meon Facebook. RC bram Hall. But
yeah, I really appreciate the opportunity. So I've been a fanny guy for
here, some friends here with LoudBlackburn, one of your old buddies,
and he actually even helped me alittle bit kind of looking over the book
when I was ready to publish.I appreciate him too, And would it
be possible for me to get likemaybe a dozen copies that are autographed for

(52:15):
me to sell it at the museum. Definitely, we can work that out
and get them sent to you.I will talk to you about that off
air, but I would love tohave some of this stuff. I think
it's a great book, so Ilook forward to reading the rest of it,
because just just leafing through it,this is a high quality book.
It's totally nonfiction, which I love. Firsthand witnesses directly from the witness's mouth.
In a lot of cases, thisis a really cool book. Thank

(52:36):
you, Thank you, Klyn.Appreciate it so much. Thank you for
setting as sight some time from us. Really do appreciate that, of course.
Thanks those cool Yeah, all right, folks, she'll check out our's
book. Those kind of them tojoin us and do us some stories that
we're going to go to the Patreonif you wanted to join, that's five
dollars a month. You get extrabonus episodes like this one where we go

(52:57):
dive deeper in with guests and followup question. You also get the regular
episode with zero commercials, no commercialsat all. That's right, So yeah,
check it out. It's in thelink below, and until next week,
y'all, keep it splatchy. Thanksfor listening to this week's episode of

(53:19):
Bigfoot and Beyond. If you likedwhat you heard, please rate and review
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