Thinking Sideways: Flight MH370 Update

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thinking sideways. I don't never stories of things simply don't
know the answer too well. Hi, there, welcome the Thing
Sideways the podcast. I'm Joe run by I'm Steve. Okay,

(00:28):
tonight we're giving you a quick update on Alasian flight
through seventy and that's why we're talking so fast. So
without any further ado, let's get right into the story. Okay,
just kidding, folks. Yeah, this is a So this is
a real quick little update, little bonus episode for you guys. Uh.
Since we posted our episode about m AS three seventy,
there have been a few developments we wanted to bring

(00:48):
you guys up to data on if you were to
wear them. Uh. First development, Australian company named Geo Residence
claims that they have found a jet liner. The day
have been goal. Where's that It's to the east of India. Yeah,
uh so anyway they say nobody is Uh. The Australian
government has actually said they don't take their claim seriously.
Nobody else has actually bothered to go out and have

(01:10):
a look seed find that it's there and it's it
really is. Actually, it seems like unlikely that it's in
that spot because they kept flying for a long a
much longer period of time than it would have taken
for the plane to get to the Bay of Bengal.
So they may or may not have found it. I
don't think it's likely. Well, yeah, nobody's really taking it seriously.

(01:30):
And what are they basing this discovery on. Yeah, is
it's photographs that they they're looking at. I think that. Well,
that their mission is to find stuff on the ocean floor,
usually minerals, and apparently one of the ways they do
it is by sniffing the air above above the above
the sea, and they can they can get traces of
various various things like elements and things like that. And
apparently they found traces of things like that you would

(01:53):
expect to find in a plane crash site, like traces
of jet fuel or at least thee the odor of
jet fuel trade is aluminum. They're using person pretty much
using and not. Yeah, and so anyway, I'm I don't
know exactly how their technology works, and they might not.
They probably don't want to like fill everybody in on
all the dirty little details of how their tech works.

(02:13):
But they claimed that they found it, and they're standing
by their claim. They claimed that they found this or
that they found a plane crash. Well, that's true, they
found a play crash. It sounds like that's what they're saying. Okay,
that's that's development number one, development number two. Now, I
know everybody has heard about this. They decided that the
plane took the southern route. And the reason they've decided
that is the company that owns the satellite that did

(02:35):
all the pinging on the plane in Marseille, yeah or
in Marsett excuse me, uh, They analyze their satellite data
and they announced that they were highly confident that m. A.
Street seventies flew south and not north. Because remember, at first,
there was just a series of pings that went from
the satellite down to the plane. The plane replied back,

(02:56):
and as as time went by, the return time of
the and grew longer. And so that's how they knew
that it was arcing away from the satellite, and but
they didn't know what direction the pain was coming from,
so it could either have been north or south. And
then they ad anounced that they had figured it out
and analyze their data, and we'll talk a little bit
more about how they figured that out in a bit. Okay,

(03:19):
and there's been another development. The third development is that
there is a private intelligence organization called LEGNAT, which stands
from Langley Intelligence Group Network, and these guys have claimed,
they claimed in late March that they have intelligence that
indicates that the plane landed on in Pakistan and Langley
that would be the CIA headquarters. Uh, not necessarily, I mean,

(03:41):
anybody can. It might be it might be former intelligence
operators for the work for that work at Langley, or
it might just be that they could have they appropriated
the name because no, there's no law to stop them. Yeah,
but apparently, I mean there are there are private intelligence
services like Stratford is one that comes to mind that
are actually high the competent, and you know they're entirely private,

(04:02):
their non governmental and so these guys, I think are
a long line. So they're saying that it's been landed somewhere. Yeah,
apparently they're apparently. Their strongest indicator for this is uh
and some engineers at Boeing who have confided and the
Boeing believes that it's on the ground in Pakistan, which
makes me think that you know, and that you know,

(04:23):
when you think about seven seventy seven is a big
plane it would be really easy to hide an extra
transponder or two on that thing and not bother to
tell the airplane company about it. So and so, if
somebody was going to hijack a plane and take the
crew hostage, take the plane somewhere, and then the first
thing that they would do if they wanted to hide
the plane is they would tell They would force the
crew to tell them where every single switch for every transponder,

(04:45):
every communication device on the plane is so they can
shut everything off. So having having a device on the
plane that the crew is not aware of would actually
be kind of a good thing. Yeah, but it seems
like the sort of thing that Boeing would have, I mean,
let some people know about you would think that they yeah,
I mean we would have said, hey, US government, we

(05:07):
did we have this hidden thing and we know where
it is. Well, yeah, no, that's that's true. But you
don't know that the U. S. Government isn't aware of this.
I guess that's true. They could be doing some covert
something or another. Yeah. So anyway, those are three developments.
Um as you as you know, if you listen to
our previous episode, we concluded Team Team Sideways said, is

(05:28):
we concluded that the plane had flown north and was
in the hands of terrorists who are going to come
back and read some nuclear death on somebody. I thought
I thought it was aliens. Yeah, no, I don't remember
agreeing to that. Now. I don't think we agree to
that one. Okay, I thought it was I meant I
meant the nuclear thing. Yeah, agree. I I didn't agree
to the alien either. But slipping out of time, Yeah yeah,
that was what about the black hole? And that's that

(05:50):
wasn't that wasn't no? Right, Yeah, that was a total sport. Yeah.
So okay, um, so now I'm going to get back
to in mare SAT and their announcement. They were they
were conclusively sure that it would had gone south. And
I don't know if any of you know this. Actually,
until recently, I didn't know this. I didn't know how
they figured that out. I just sort of, oh, you know,
they're the experts. What the hell? Right, So here's what happened.

(06:13):
Here's there. They have a satellite over the Indian Ocean.
It's at sixty east zero degrees north because it's on
the equator, and it's in a geostationary orbit, which means
that it's at two two hundred thirty six miles above
sea level, and at that at that height you're in
an orbit that's that's exactly the same speed as the rotation,

(06:35):
so you appear to have synchronous then, yeah, it's geosynchronous.
That's that's cool. I didn't I guess I didn't realize
that was the thing that we did, although it makes
sense that of course, like we would do that. Yeah,
the closer, the closer to objects are orbiting each other,
the closer they are, the faster they're moving around, and
then the farther out the slower. Yeah. So that's that's

(06:59):
a sweet spot, right, A very popular spot to put satellites.
There is this natural phenomenon called precession. And what that
is is you can put a geo ship, a geosynchrome
Is satellite into orbit and it's it's near to perfect
in this positioning. But over time, the pull of the
of the Sun to pull the Moon, solar wind, magnetic

(07:19):
variations in the Earth's crust will pull that thing out
of orbit over the equator, so its position is degraded. Yeah,
it has. And so so this thing is now one
point six six degrees off the equator, so it goes.
So that means during the course of a day, it
goes as far as one point six six degrees north
and then it starts going back down. It crosses the
equator again and goes one point six six degrees south

(07:43):
of the equator, and that would make it easier for
them to figure out if things had gone or her south. Right, Yeah, exactly,
That's that's how they use it. There's a here's a
diagram of the of these things. So, yeah, I saw that. Okay, yeah,
So anyway, so it makes total sense. Yeah, And so
that's how they were able to figure it out because

(08:05):
this thing at a certain point was during the flight
was moving north, and then for for the latter two
thirds of the flight, until they lost contact with the plane,
it was moving south at gaining speed. But this thing
doesn't really move fast in the north south direction. The
fastest it goes it's maybe thirty Now we've talked about

(08:26):
the Doppler effect, and we all know what that is.
I'll talk real quick though. The Doppler effect is is
what happens when you can press waves. So it happens
with sound waves. Imagine a locomotive going by you blowing
its horns yeah, and when it goes past you, suddenly
it drops. It drops in frequency because it's moving away
from you. So the sound waves lengthen out. There's a

(08:47):
great episode of Big Bang Theory in which Sheldon dresses
up like the Doppler effect. It's amazing, look at it.
If it's amazing, Yeah, on the Doppler effect, I them.
So that happens with light, happens with radio waves everything.
So when the satellite pings the plane, it gets a

(09:07):
ping back, and then if the plane is moving away
from the satellite, then it changes the radio frequency of
the return ping and then yeah, so if it's yeah, so,
if it's moving towards it, the frequency will slowly increase.
If it's moving away, it slowly decreases. Correct, Yeah, exactly.

(09:28):
But they tracked the graph, the actual data, the actual
shifts in frequency that the experienced of the pings graft
all that. Then they drew up on knowing the speed
in the direction of the satellite. They basically drew two
theoretical curves on the same graph of what the ships
would look like if it had gone north and what

(09:49):
the ships would look like if it had gone south.
And they found that though, and they found that the
actual data that they got on that graph correlated very
strongly with the other projected track, and so that's why
they concluded with such confidence that um that have gone south. Well,
it turns out there are some people that have been

(10:09):
trying to make sense of the graph. And so we're
not talking about just like, yeah, who's with a website, right,
I'm not talking about just like weird thinking sideways exactly
what we're talking about people who actually know what they're
talking about everything though, don't don't lie, don't Okay, I
don't graph anything. Yeah, and so thanks for outing me there, Kevin,

(10:30):
appreciate that. Okay. So so some of these guys, I'm
named four of them here. Michael Exner as a founder
of a company called American Mobile Satellite Corporation. So this
guy probably knows a bit about satellites and stuff. Duncan
Steals a physicist who currently is working at NASA Flash
porn Star. Uh No, actually, do you guys recognize the

(10:51):
name Duncan Steel. It does sound really familiar. He was
one of the main guys that was in that story
that we talked about that We've talked about him before.
Was he the same guy the same guy. I thought.
I just recognized his name from like romance novels. Yeah,
I'm gonna steal. Yeah, that's Danielle Steel. But I also

(11:15):
made that mistake in that episode. Yeah, we're gonna need
to like like look this guy up at his wiki
page and see it's the same dude. It's pretty positive
it's the same dude. Yeah, because I went to his website. Yeah. Wow, Okay,
the web doesn't lie. The web never lies yet. Okay, next,
next guy in line, Tim Ferrar. It was a satellite
technology consultant, and a guy named Ari Schulman was editor

(11:39):
of The New Atlantis. And I have no idea. I
didn't bother to go find out what that meg is about.
But he wrote a long, very interesting article where he
summarized some of the some of the problems that they've
had with figuring out in mar Set's data. And so
here's some of the problems. I was gonna say, Yeah,
I was gonna ask had you were you going to
go into those problems because I found it really interesting
when I read the articles about it. Yeah, the problems

(12:01):
that that they have with the graph. Okay, number one,
the first ping if you look at the graph. It
was taken when the plane was on the ground. It
shows a shift of minus eighty five hurts. So according
to their calculations, and this involves like this involves like
three dimensional trigonometry and stuff, which is why I didn't
actually sit down and try to try to replicate. I

(12:21):
looked at Yeah, exactly, I'll take their word for it. So,
according to one of these guys, the plane would have
had to be moving about fifty miles an hour relative
to the satellite to produce that kind of a shift.
So that doesn't make any sense in Marsett because that's
when they're loading baggage. Plane stop moving. Yeah, I think
at that time they were. They were at the gate,
and they might have just left the gate, but they

(12:43):
weren't yet taxing to the runway. According to the according
to their logs, they say that the frequency shifts are
higher at the beginning of the graph and including that
fifty miles an hour at that's sitting at the starting gate.
They're lower at the other end. So the shift at
the last ping on their graph shows a plane moving
away from the satellite at a hundred three miles an hour.
But they produced a map which we've all seen. It's

(13:04):
a map of the globe that shows these two different
arcs that the plane can take. And uh, that map
shows a plane receiving it two seventy two miles per
hour relative to the satellite. So that makes no sense. Well,
in their their whole basis is that when in Marsette
did all their math, they didn't they said, well, the

(13:25):
satellite doesn't move, so we know where it's at. They
didn't take into consideration the fact that the satellite is
actually moving up and down north and south. And when
these guys, when I was reading it, these guys did
the math and they said, well, if you factor in
the fact that at this point it should have been
at the peak of its northbound arc, and you factor
that in, oh, wait, the plane is moving it one

(13:47):
mile an hour in the in the very first pain
that's eleven minutes before take off, So that actually makes
more sense. That's how they got to their their arc
of the trajectory of where this plane would have gone. Well,
actually they took it a step further in more set
mr Set based their their their calculations on the fact
that the satellite was moving and uh, and so that's
how they figured that out that that the satellite was so. So, say,

(14:10):
for example, if the plane is going south and the
satellite is moving south, then what that means is that
a ping back from the plane that is going south
is going to be at a higher frequency than the
paying back from the plane going north. Yeah, and that's
how So that's how m R Set figured that out.
What they didn't take into account, apparently, is that the

(14:31):
satellite is also moving relative to the ground receiving station
that is sending its data to ore is so yeah,
and so they paying the plane, they get back a
shifted radio ping and and then they retransmit that to
the ground station which is also moving relative to the satellite. Yeah,
it's yeah, it is. And the ground sat the receiving

(14:52):
station is in Perth, Australia, and it's southwest, a long
way southwest from the satellite. And so then so the
fact that they didn't take that into account through there
to all their stuff. It actually is two moving points
in space, not one moving point. Do they have updated graph?
Then in Marsette does not These guys did Michael Exner,

(15:14):
the founder of American Mobile Satellite Corporation, did the calcus
on what exactly what exactly the shift would have been
between the satellite and the ground station, and then he
basically plotted that, subtracted it from the actual data, and
plotted a different graph that actually matches reality far, far
better than in Marsett's graph. Smart people. Yeah, and then

(15:36):
this one, like you said, does have the plane. They
practically at zero at the beginning, which is where out
of being Yeah hopefully, Yeah, I hope. So okay, As
I said that, listen to the problems. The first thing,
they were moving fast. The shifts are higher, but they
solved that problem and they're higher at the beginning and
lower at the end. Uh. And another big problem. What
it is and I'm going to hold up this graph

(15:57):
to the microphone so our listeners can see this. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
another big problem. What that is is, Uh, they fixed that,
but that still doesn't settle the issue of whether the
plane went north or south, because these guys have said
in Marsett's projected or predicted tracks for the point in
north and south make absolutely no sense. If you look

(16:19):
at and we'll post we'll post a copy this on
online for our wonderful listeners. But if you look at
this and those of us in the room. If those
of you in the room, you can see this if
you look at this at at nineteen forty and we're
talking time here, uh, there were there was a pink
set out and this is the actual the green light
as the actual recorded pin. And this is the north

(16:40):
course what what the ship would have been for the
north course, and this is what it would have been
for the south course. But at that time at y
the satellite had reached its northernmost point and was about
to start going back south again, which means that relative
to the plane is either the north or the south plane,
the satellite wasn't effectively was not moving. It was state. Yeah,

(17:00):
it was at that point not really moving. So what
they're what what people are puzzled about on it's the
predicted tracks that in Marcette put on that graph is
those points should be together, they should be like, you know,
the same spot. I also think when I see correlations
like this on a map that are so close, when

(17:23):
they're like, oh, yeah, this is what we projected it
would have been, and this is what it actually is,
so like obviously this is where it went. I just
kind of called bunk on it, Like I just don't
necessarily I can't. I just can't quite Yeah, I can't
quite get there. Yeah. Well there's some other head scratches
about the whole thing. Um, after this, after the satellite
started moving southward, then those two lines should should like

(17:47):
assume the south that the satellite turned around started going
south and imagine for a moment that it's moving consistently
the same speed as a moves on that line. Right,
So at that point, those two lines should be parallel.
And other words, the shift should be the same no
matter what for the north and the south. It should
it should stay the same because the satellite is moving
at the same rate. However, of course, the satellite is

(18:08):
not staying at the same speed. It's picking up speeds
and move southward. What that means is that those lines
should move apart as time goes by. Now look at
the graph and what do you see? They're parallel? No,
they're not. They're parallel for a bit. And then look
look what happens. They cross the north south lines the
north the predicted north south track lines across. Now, how

(18:30):
can this happen when the satellite is moving southward? Yeah,
that's an issue. Uh huh. Yeah, So seeing it's front
with problems. Yeah, I'm not even that good at graph things,
and it sort of jumps out at you. Huh yeah.
So yeah, So anyway, these guys have been I've been
trying to get information from in mar Set about this,

(18:52):
and they're not divulging what their methodology was for arriving
at any of this stuff. Yeah, it's probably you know,
we just pulled guess. We know what we're doing. I
kind of know what we're doing, so we just guessed,
put some points on a graph, made it look legit. Yeah,
we had our intern Billy work on that. He's good
with graphs and colors. He's good at making Excel graph exactly. So, um,

(19:16):
it's it's it's a head scratcher why in Marsett won't
just tell us why why they came up with that
particular prediction. And uh as Ari Shulman, the guy who
wrote this article that I'm I'm taking a little bit
of this front actually a lot, thanks, sorry. So what
he says is, since they won't say how they arrived

(19:36):
at their estimates and I'm totally paraphrasing here of the
frequency shifts from the north and south predicted paths, their
argument basically is trust us, and so in other words,
there's no reason to believe they're correct about the flight
heading south. I guess, you know, I can this leave
le lends a little credence to the whole like Pakistan

(19:57):
idea to me or the like actual abduction of it
at some point, and we're sad as saying, oh, we
can't tell you how we came up with these things,
but just trust us. Just trust us. And you know,
somebody from Boeing supposedly said like, well, we think it's
in Pakistan. You know, at some point you kind of
have to say, there's enough weird information flying around that

(20:17):
this isn't just coincidence and incompetence anymore. This might actually
be people and you Again, I say, I am not
the conspiracy, not either, but at some point you kind
of have to look at all of the incompetence that's
been happening around this whole thing. And I wouldn't call
it incompetence, but but misdirection maybe I don't know, errors.

(20:39):
I guess is probably you kind of have to take
that step back and say, Okay, is it possible that
all of these people who are like professionals who really
should know what they're doing, are making these blunders, or
is it more likely that they're lying to us they're
not that they're not supposed to actually tell us what
they know. Yeah, I think that probably is it, which
leads to, you know, a whole lot of questions supposing

(21:02):
it isn't in Pakistan, perhaps our government, the Chinese government,
the Malaysian government are negotiating with these terrorists for the
lives of those two people who are on the plane. Well,
or you just don't want Pakistan to know. I mean,
you know, the people who have it, if if the
organization has it, you don't want people to say like, oh,
we know you have it. You know, if you're gonna

(21:24):
try and organize a rescue or cobart operation or anything
like that, you're not going to be like, oh, yeah,
we know they have it. Yeah, that is that is ideal.
You know, if you if you are head of a
head of a state and somebody commits an act of war,
which this is, and you don't want to respond to
that provocation, Uh, what do you do? Well, the best

(21:45):
thing to do to avoid losing face is to play dumb,
is to just pretend like you don't know anything about it.
So you tell, Tell, Tell the boys in n R said,
they come up with this idea, and you say, fine,
just cook the books a little bit so we can
say that went south and we don't have to go,
you know, beat the bushes up and up in Pakistan.
And I will say that if if this is a

(22:07):
deliberate misdirection, we've sunk a lot. I mean just the U. S.
Navy alone has sunk a lot of millions of dollars
already into a lot of this search your perth. You know.
So if I would say that, you know, I would
be really angry. Well to know that we had just
been like, oh, you know, we knew it was in Pakistan,

(22:29):
or we knew it was you know where ever else
this whole time, but we just felt like we need
to save face. Yeah, yeah, and and and obviously, and
that's that's the thing that's the head scratcher too, is
is that if you get caught, I mean, if you
get caught, it's the end for you. It's really the end,
because I mean, think about all the families who who
have been thinking for all this time that they're loved
ones are dead. Yeah, so you better have a really

(22:52):
good story when you get busted. Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, it's
the whole thing is just inexplicable, and it still might
have gone south. That says these guys are saying. They're
not claiming that it went north, they're just claiming I
didn't go And I swear that I saw a map
that they had drawn where it took from its original

(23:14):
launch point. It took a very southwesterly route, So it's
it's not heading towards Australia at all. It was heading
way away from it, in the opposite direction. And so
it would explain why no wreckage has been found, because
it is, you know, thousands of miles in the opposite direction.

(23:35):
And this is again their their map is still saying
it went south, but it didn't go southeast. It went
southwest relative to where it started from. Yeah, it's yeah. Yeah,
So anyway, I would say to judgment by the fact
that not a single bit of debris has been found,
you know, not not the tiniest little oil slick in

(23:55):
the surface of the water. It kind of makes you wonder. Yeah.
So anyway, that's about it. You guys have anywhere to
add anywhere and where? Yeah? Yeah, probably a black hole.
Uh yeah, So anyway, folks, we just wanted to bring
you guys up to date on all the latest. Alright, folks,

(24:16):
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(24:37):
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So for Thinking Sideways. This has been a very special episode.
The update on MH three seventy. Hope you guys learned something,

(25:00):
See you later, Bye everybud, Bye guys,