Ep. 239 - Q&A - December, 2023

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Big food and be on with Cliffand Bulbo. These guys are you favorites?
So like say subscribe and raid it. I'm stuck and me on USh
today and listening, oh watching limalways keep its watching. And now you're

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hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay, Hey Bobs, how you doing man
Q and a day. I'm doinggood, Cliff, how are you?
Things are good? Things are good. Have some time at home. My
dog's on the upswing. She's doinga lot better now, which is great
principal concern of mine this past coupleof weeks. As I mentioned, I
think on last week's episode, geta little bit of time off, but

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I'm also spending a fair amount oftime in the shop. We're doing a
lot of improvements. Man, there'sa lot of cool things happening in the
NABC over the next couple of months. Pretty stoked. You gotta come up
and check them out. Yeah yeah, yeah, really neat stuff. New
displays, we're revamping old displays.We're not we don't have square footage to
expand, but we're expanding up invarious ways. Some really really neat things

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are happening. So looking looking forwardto seeing how they all come to fruition
here. I think he told methat is a surprise. Well, I
don't want to talk about too much. I guess there are some cool things,
but we're doing some like a humanorigin sort of thing, kind of
explaining what like the general idea ofwhat a relati hominoid is. We're doing
an Ape Canyon display because next yearis a centennial of the Ape Canyon story,

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and in fact, we're gonna becelebrating that all year long. It's
gonna be some events. We're tryingto Mark marcell In on some things.
He's going to help me design thenew display with permission from the Gifford Pincho
National Forest Archaeologist. We're going totry to get some of the artifacts that
Mark has obtained and put those outfor people to check out. Real stuff.

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And then, of course, sincethe mine itself was rediscovered just like
a month or two ago, thatkind of puts a nice punctuation mark in
the end of that sentence. Youknow. We do a commember of coin
every year as well. It's gonnabe Epe Canyon Center, so we're gonna
have an Epe Canyon Coin RG.Yeah, really really neat stuff, man,
really neat stuff. I'm doing adisplay on a human feet because we

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were donated, is that right?A pair of shoes that were made for
Shaquille O'Neal have been donated to themuseum. Yeah, from Nike. I
guess Nike didn't donate it, butit's one of their employees had it or
whatever. And then of course thatended up in Larry LUN's hands, and
Larry gave him to us. Larry'scourse a great friend and a great historic

(02:37):
bigfooter. So we're doing like,okay, yeah, a person the size
of Shack. You know, Shackis the size of a small SaaS watch.
Basically, I think he's seven foottwo or something like that, remember,
right, yeah, seven to one, like three eighty yeah, yeah,
So he's kind of a more femininesaasquatch perhaps, I don't know.
But his feet, well, hisshoes. I measured his shoes yesterday.

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They're fifteen inches long, but theyaren't very wide. The Patterson Gimlan film
subjects feet are about fourteen fourteen anda half inches long, and her feet
are about a third wider than Shacks. So I thought that'd be kind of
a fun, fun displays like putShequille O'Neil's shoes out there. Compare them
to the PG film subject's feet orsome other sasquatch of equivalent length. You
know, this show that humans ofthat size don't have feet the size or

(03:23):
shape or functionality of sasquatches. Andof course I also have a few other
interesting footprints from various humans, mostnotably Bob Saggott. I have Bob Saggatt's
foot print cast, and Bob letme cast his prints when we filmed that
thing up on the Olympic Peninsula withhim years ago, so I put that
in there. And of course,if you remember when we filmed that Organ

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episode of Finding Bigfoot, we hungout with that dude, Eric, the
second tallest man in Organ. Yeah. Yeah, he's like seven to three
or something like that, and soI have his footprint cast as well.
So I'm making a little display oftall humans and how their feet are remarkable
different than sasquatches. A bunch ofother stuff too. I think we're going
to get another another sasquatch model fromBo Bruns. I'm working with bo Bruns

(04:08):
to do some handprint evidence stuff thatI want to disclose too much of it's
pretty cool. Going to commission himto do some stuff for me. And
there's just a lot of things onthe horizon right now, just a lot
of things on the horizon, toomany to even mention, but I mentioned
some cool, Yeah, I did. Bart was up here for five days

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and it was a success all around. We won money betting football games and
we also had It was interesting.We went back to a spot we go
to every so often and it wasreally cold. It was like the colodest
night of the year so far.It was like high twenties or whatever.
So we hiked in and we gotlike pretty late. It was like I

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think we hiked in around twelve thirtyin the morning, just after midnight.
And we got in there and wewere walking. We were head into the
spot we always go to, likethe spot you've been to with me before,
and I thought I heard something.I thought I was hearing something,
so I stopped and then I hearlike a you know, just a like

(05:12):
a pop. And I was like, oh, bar hold on. And
we sat there and listened, andthen then I heard another one like a
you know, and then about tenseconds later there was another one. Call
them like tap back and forth toIt was definitely not for us. They
did not want us to hear it. And then we sat there and they
just kind of they were on there, sort of the creak from us,

(05:34):
and we just heard them slowly go, not slowly as I guess they're going,
kind of quickly. We it wasamazing things we couldn't hear any We
couldn't hear them moving. It wasjust we'd hear like a knock and then
another knock, and then I dida couple like single collaps and they answered
me back three times. Cool.Yeah, but they were like, still,
I don't think they're answering me back, like for me to hear it.

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Well, one of them was loudenough like it was like that.
I think they did so that wecould we could hear it. Also.
Then after that, I was likejust real softer ones as they moved up
away from us. Interesting. Interesting, So when's the last time you were
in this particular area? I gothat pretty often. Yeah, when's last
time you heard something? I guesswhen last timmer you were aware that they
were in this particular area. It'sthe same place I told you about where

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I was having the daytime stuff whereI never had daytime stuff before. Then
I just got that clapping thing.Yeah, how long ago was that?
I don't remember. Summer before lastis when I had the clapping exchange.
I think it was last summer.Jesus can't remember enough it was, I
guess it was. It was eithera year ago or it was either like
a year and a half ago,or like last April, or it was

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like last May twenty twenty two.I can't remember. Then I also had
that's when I where I clapped onceand then it clapped once and then I
clapped twice. It clapped twice,and I clapped three times. At clapped
three times. Then I clapped fourtimes. I did four times. I
went back to three and it didn'tdo it, and I did two and
answered to that I did one didone. That sounds awesome, Yeah it

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was, I was. I wassuper stoked on that one. Well,
yeah, I mean because you maybe able to like call or knock and
they may do something back, butthey have that level of interaction as just
a you know, one step beyond. Yeah. And that was also the
day that I couldn't. I waslike wondering, like is there like some
CCC you know, like work,you know, like the young guys gals.

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They have that thing for like seventeento twenty three year olds the California
Conservation Corre. They go out andlike do trail maintenance and cut fire lines.
And I kept hearing like a gailylaughter and like talk like fast talking,
but I couldn't make any words outand it was so Yeah. When
I was walking back up on theparking lot, there was a there was
a woman sitting there and she wasthis really bitter, angry like German lady

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like in the early sixties, andI was talking to her id I was
like, I was like, yeah, I go, did you was there
anyone else around here? She's likeno, And I think she thought I
was like a car burgler or somethingand I said uh and she and then
so she was some dude was sittingin a van. I said, is
there other people in your Is thisthere's other people in your van? Like
that could be down there making noiseor doing anything. And she got all

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pissed off like no, like youknow, kind of mind your own business
stuff. And I was like,well, they don't like that, you
know, it's not them. Andthen there was no other vehicles there.
There was one car but it wasthere when we got there. This was
a few hours later, and thecar was sl I think they were like,
you know, they weren't around becauseyou don't, you don't hang out

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though you know the trail head there'snothing there. Yeah, so I mean
that day was a trip. Inever could make anything out for sure,
and it was it was kind ofa breezy day, like you know,
the trees were making a little noise, but I definitely was hearing talking in
like loud like voices, and Itried to ask the lady like, well,
did you hear people talking about her? And she just took a strager

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for cigarette, glared at me andblew smoke in my direction. Oh classy,
Yeah, wellea, I think,I mean bigfooting in my net of
the woods is kind of I mean, it's not coming to a close right
here, but you know, thestorm coming in right now is going to
drop the snow level to twenty fivehundred feet probably over the weekend. Yeah,
so my best spot's are right attwenty three to twenty eight. So

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that kind of shuts me out becauseI don't I don't play around with snow
very often. Dude. We werebeing bared, we came, we came
back to the pad every night.Were just we never even went that.
We never went out deep. Wejust stayed because the first night we had
the knock, so we stayed.We didn't go to the same exact spot.
We went to places like other accesspoints nearby, and uh yeah,
I just I was like, god, you know, it was like in

(09:35):
the twenties, low thirties. Iwas like, I just hate camping this
stuff now and nothing never happens downthere on the where we were at,
Like I've never had any nighttime stufflike you go Inland and I've had stuff
happen at night all like that's whenstuff happens. But so yeah, we
just went back. We we wouldn'tget back to like you know, practically
sunrise and then just crash out.But yeah, we got pretty worn out

(09:58):
that on the f at night.Bart was like we were both so tired.
He just goes because I hate tosay this, dude, I got
another night, but I think I'min a head home. Like dude,
I don't blame anything. He leftit like one o'clock after night. I
just went to bed and stayed inbed till the next day. Nice nice.
Well, you know, age willeventually affect everyone, even Bart.

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Yep, it just did. Forthe first well, he was getting over
like the flu or something, andthen he had when he was driving back.
Then he had a full relapse.Well, it had to be more
than just age for Bart. Youknow, Bart's one of the most enthusiastic
big futters I've ever met. Yeah, yeah, endless energy and enthusiasm.
The final night, he definitely was. He did not have the thron to
his eye twenty four to seven.It was only into his eye about ninety

(10:41):
percent of the time. Oh mygod, he's slipping. Yeah, it
just these like thermal ocular implants orsomething, and he'll be set. God,
I mean I remember how it was, but I kind of almost forgot,
Like, how like doing that manynights in a row, how hard
that is in your eyes? Well, yeah, and everything really. I
mean, I hate to tell youboth. I mean, I don't know

(11:03):
how you feel, but we're notyoung men anymore. If as all as
you feel, I'm screwed because Ifeel pretty old. I know me too.
My birthday was this week, soI got a little extra jab of
age and me and it's like,oh yeah, fifty three years old.
You ain't no Spring Chicken anymore.Oh well, enough about us. But
wait, wait, how can Isay that people actually tune in to listen

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to us so well, I don'tknow. It's a Q and a day,
you know, and that's something tocelebrate. This. This is what
my favorite kind of episode to do. It's just a lot of fun because
we don't know what's coming, andthen it's a chance to kind of interact
to some degree with our fan baseand like people who listen to this program
and everywhere in between. I lovethese shows. So that's today. I'm
excited about this one. Yeah,I love this. What do we got,

(11:46):
pru It? Yeah, Prue,light it up, pruit. I
will preface this by saying that thismight be my favorite voicemail of all time,
as it speaks to the inner childand me and hopefully in all of
us. Hi, Cliff and bowBook. Name is Kaya some Colorado and
I'm wondering what squatches poop look like. I love your show so much.

(12:09):
They look like giant human poops.For the most part, I'm not sure
I've ever actually Kaya. By theway, thank you very much for the
question. Colorado is a great state, you're lucky to live there. Do
you think it's weird that, LikeKaya said, what does poop look like?
I love your show? She doesn'tit sounds like, well, yeah,

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I have to say I don't.I'm not sure I've ever one percent
absolutely I'm completely positive scene a sasquatchturd, you know. Yeah, I
have that one that's that went onthe rat trap with the footprints straddling on
each side of it. It tookthat one brought to the the fishing game
and so they were gonna like lookat it, and it turned out they
just threw it away. Yeah.I mean, I've never seen one that

(12:56):
I'm positive as big butt. ButI've seen some big turn that look like
human turds in the woods and makesme wonder, you know, bigger than
what I would expect a bear.But man, there's some big bears out
there too, So I don't know. I've heard bigfoot turds look like big
humans, and Bobo just verified thatto some degree. I've heard that they
might be the diameter of a sodacan. Yeah, I've seen what I

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thought was sasquatch scat, and thatwas in the Southern Appalachians during a time
when there was a heavy acorn mastAnd you know, there's a number of
mammals and a number of animals,but certainly some of the larger mammals that
eat acorns pretty regularly. But oneof the things that defines them is the
shape of their teeth. You know, their dentition is is fairly unique,
and you can identify animals via that. And so, for example, when

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I've seen black bear scat that wasfull of acorns, you know, they
tend to look chopped, because abear's dentition will sort of chop things of
that nature. And I've seen othervery fresh scat that looked like it was
made of acorn material, but ithad been so finely masticated and chewed and
like ground into ost like peanut butter. Sometimes bear scatt can get rained on

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and everything sort of degrades, andso it turns into that mushy like peanut
butter sort of consistency. But it'llalso be really discolored. You can tell
it's very aged, and then youcan break it open with a stick and
still find the big chopped chunks insideof it. But this was like a
log of peanut butter, and soit seemed like it was chewed by something
masticated by something with a very differentsort of dentition than ungulates would have,

(14:26):
where than bears would have. Andso I thought that was very compelling.
But also one thing you learn fromblack bears, because they're omnivores, is
that there is no definition old blackbear poop, because it depends on what
they're eating. And their diet isso varied that sometimes they're more like cowpies
and sometimes they are more like logs. And I would say to Kaya or

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anybody else, if you go backand listen to Darryl Collier's interview, I'm
pretty sure he recounted, if noton our interview with him on Bigfoot and
Beyond, but I know he's recountedin other podcasts. Incident where he had
a very close encounter with a sasquatchand it seemed to have been alarmed and
it bolted, and right where itwas standing was a fresh pile of scat

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that was still basically hot and steaming, and it looked like a big pile
of peanut butter, like heavily finelymasticated nut material. And area ACTX where
this occurred is full of various nutbearing trees and so I think it does
vary a lot. But if you'retalking about something dense like nuts and it
seems to be finely chewed and masticatedalmost into a paste, you'd have to

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rule out a lot of other animalsbecause they just don't have the dentition to
do that. Stay tuned for moreBigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
We'll be right back after these messages. How does that compare with what you
saw, Bobo? This one wasit had a lot of vegetation in it,

(15:58):
and it also had deer. Therewas some deer hair, and you
can tell us meat like that.It's been eating meat too, just you
know, it's that real dark texture, and had didn't have some road and
hair. Just I couldn't tell exactlywhat it was eating a lot of vegetation.
Yeah, again, I haven't verifiedanything to be sasquatched poop. I

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didn't have a weird turd, thoughappeared by my car I thought was interesting.
I went walking in Easter Island,one of our spots, this one
particular place where we have been repeatedlyfinding footprints, and of course we it's
very likely been repeatedly finding footprints becausewe repeatedly walk that road. But on
the way out, you know,just walked the road, didn't on the
didn't find anything. On the wayback, there was a big old turd

(16:41):
about thirty feet from my car,right in the middle of the road.
I thought that was kind of peculiar. Of course, it could be almost
anything, and it does kind ofmatch your peanut butter description there. Yeah,
so Kaya, I don't know ifthat answered your question, but it
certainly gave us stuff to talk aboutfor a while. We do appreciate that,
and of course we appreciate you listeningand then phoning in the question.
We really when we say phoning andphoning it in, of course, you
know, we mean that in agood way. Yeah, maybe we should

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go to the next question. Hey, Cliff and Bubbo Nick from New Jersey.
I was hoping you can let usknow some of your favorite casting products
and techniques. Really interested in howyou all do it? Love you guys,
stay squatchy. My favorite casting materialis hydrokel white, and specifically white.
I just like I like that one. Hydro cal in general has a

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yellowish sort of color to it.It's okay, it's okay, it's real
pretty. Actually, when you dolike a wash over it or wherever with
some cement stain. It turns outreally nicely. But I kind of prefer
the white for whatever reason, justI figure plaster cast plaster or white.
You know, it's just a personalpreference there. But honestly, my favorite
material is what's at hand, whatyou can actually cast in. The most

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important thing is to get the impressionrecorded. Another great material, dental stone
is fantastic, has a high levelof detail and that sort of thing.
It's easy to work with, it'sexpensive, but it's good. I think
the most important thing might be towhatever you have you practice with it first,
so you know your first cast isa track like a real squash track.

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Yeah, absolutely that that would fallinto the technique part of the question,
for sure, for sure. Infact, one of the guys of
Bobo sent somebody my way. Iwas texting with somebody this past week who's
been finding footprint tracks on a railwayrise, I guess, And that's why
I told him. It's like hewas telling me what about this and what

(18:32):
about this? And I kind ofsaid, well, at the end of
the day, you should just doa test run, you know, make
a print next to the real printand then try to cast your own and
see how you screw up, andthen try not to do that on the
real one, because everybody screws up. I mean, mistakes are made all
the time. And the more youpractice, the fewer mistakes will be made,
but you're still going to make them. I mean I I screw things

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up all the time. You havea practice, practice, practice, and
it also helps the practice and avariety of substrates, like because casting in
dry sand is very different than castingin super saturated mud, for example.
They both have their challenges and theyboth make it easier in some ways.
You know, every situation is alittle bit different. So it's just a
good idea to get out there.And if you find a bear print,

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cast it, you know, youfind a cool elk print, cast it,
you find a mountain lion print,cast it? Why not? It's
fun, it's cool, you havea souvenir, and it's giving you that
rehearsal for the real show when you'reface to face with the fifteen inch print
of the ground. That's my takeon it. As far as and other
techniques, I guess, but Ithink the most important thing is take photographs

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and then cast it. Because whatI've been finding lately is that, you
know, the books and the photographsand everything that we see online and whatnot,
they really have skewed the perception ofwhat sasquatch footprints look like in the
ground. And everybody's looking for thatreally two or three inches deep, Look
at the weight the thing must havehad. Blah blah blah. Now they're
not like that, man, They'rereally not like like that, because the

(20:02):
substrate usually is not conducive to thatsort of impression, or maybe the animals
themselves, or they don't like towalk in it. I know that my
dog doesn't like to walk in mud. Maybe sasquatches feel the same way.
I don't know, But most sasquatchimpressions in the ground are very subtle.
So I don't know, man,just they're not what they're not what we
think they are. And once youtune your eyes to see them, you

(20:23):
know, you don't find a lotof them. You never find a lot
of them, but you kind ofhave to tune your eyes. It's kind
of like, you know, you'restanding on the ground, you look down
that oh, look there's an antand you go, oh my god,
there's like ten thousand ants. Ididn't even see them. You know,
you have to kind of calibrate youreyes to see certain things. Yeah,
take photographs because sometimes those the footprintscan be seen better in the photograph than

(20:45):
they can in the cast, andsometimes it's the opposite. I just put
out a new video for the NABCmembers, because our members get two videos
every single month that we make inshop. And in this particular video,
I was down in the Blue Mountainsat this one particular area. I went
looking for the Summerland tree. There'sa tree out there in the Blue Mountains
that has a bunch of ribbons andmemorabilia kind of tied to it, and

(21:07):
it's a place where West Summerland's funeralwas held. And I've been looking for
the tree for a long time becauseI want to go buy and pay my
respects. And I found it isthat as at a location where a number
of footprints have come out of Andso I went walking around, thinking,
Okay, the best homage to Westthat I can possibly give is to look
for sasquatch footprints at this place thatmeant so much to him that he had
his funeral here. So I waswalking down the creek and I found I

(21:29):
found a series of three no onetwo three four footprints of a biped They
were either humans wearing boots or asasquatch, I don't know. The prints
weren't real big, about twelve inchesif I remember correctly, but the space
between them was sixty one or sixtytwo inches a step length. So either
a human running or a sasquatch makinggood time, I'm not sure. And

(21:52):
at the time, when looking atthem in the ground and thinking, well,
this is a this is a definitemaybe right, and that's going what
am I looking at here? Butwhen I looked at the video when I
was making the video, the impressionsthat jumped out at me even more so
than they did in person, Whichis why I think taking photographs of these
impressions in the ground is so important, because it gives you a perspective.
And cameras, you know, areawfully sensitive nowadays. They can they can

(22:15):
help you see things that perhaps youcan't see in person. Anyway, that's
my thought. Take pictures, dothe best job you can, and as
Bobo said, most important thing youcan do is practice. Amen. I
hope that helps Nick. All right, you want to cue up the next
one. Yeah, that's here itwhat do you got proved? Hey clipping
Bobo Ryan from Vancouver here. Ijust want to say, awesome show.

(22:36):
Got a chance to be the museumthis summer. Just great place, full
of great information exhibits. Matt,your book was incredible. I think everyone
should read it. I just wantto know what your guys's opinions are six
toad prints? Do they really existor they use? Are those fake ones
or is it polydactylism. I knowthat even the Kocony beer logo up in
Canada here has six prints as thesasquatch on the print. So just wondering

(22:59):
what you're are on that? Thankyou. Yeah. Interestingly enough, that
trope, that motif is associated withsome of the mystery apes worldwide. A
lot of the old legendary sort ofnarratives that are associated with these various mystery
apes include things like six fingers,six toes, and two rows of teeth.
Those are frequently recurring sort of mythologicaltropes or motifs. But I'm sure

(23:26):
Cliff can speak to the fact thatthere's nothing in the in the modern eyewitness
record, you know, the testimonialrecord, nor the record of modern evidence
that would suggest that. So itseems more like a mythological motif for almost
like an archetypal idea, much moreso than something that's supported by direct observation
or by the evidence. I canpoint to a couple casts that seem to

(23:48):
have six toe impressions, and there'sa very simple explanation for them, in
my opinion. But first of all, mammals, you know, like the
primates, mammals in general, don'thave six digits essentially unless something's very very
wrong with them, and I don'tthink that would be the case with sasquatches
for the most part. But thesevery small number of footprint casts that show
a possible six digit what the simplestand I think most reasonable, And I

(24:14):
think the right explanation for those isa double strike is what it's called.
Because here I go again, thisis my mantra. I should make sure
it's saying. The footprint is notthe shape of the foot, it's the
shape of the damage done to theground by the foot as the thing walks
by. So if the foot hitsthe ground, maybe makes the five toe
impressions, and then the weight shiftsto a different place or the foot slips

(24:41):
a little bit, or the directionto travel changes in mid step, and
the push off happens after that thetoe might be forced into the ground at
a different location than it was initiallyinserted into the ground, essentially because the
stepping thing, you know, justoff the top of my head. Okay,
so maybe change of directions, ashift, or a slippage or something

(25:03):
like that. Three things off thetop of my head that might happen in
that half a second or a quarterof a second that that foot is in
contact with the ground. It changesthe shape of the impression that that foot
made in the ground. Essentially,it's what we call a double strike.
Something shifted in the foot, itchanged, and the impression, the shape

(25:25):
of the damage done to the groundby the foot changed because of whatever the
variable was at the time, thechange of direction or the shifting or the
slipping or whatever it else. Itcould have been. Something important to keep
in mind when you're looking at sasquatchfootprints in general, is that their feet
and which includes their toes. Right, their feet and toes are about as

(25:48):
malleable, about as bendy as yourhands are. Now. They probably can't
do as much obviously, because youhave these wonderful thumbs that are opposed and
you and touch the fingertips to thethumb and all that jazz. It gives
us a precision grip where we cando things like pick up individual hairs off
of a table or Bebi's or somethinglike that. The sassquatches, obviously,

(26:11):
their feet aren't like that. Heck, their hands aren't even like that.
But their feet definitely are not likethat. But their toes are very often
as long as your fingers are.They don't look that long because they're contrasting
with the planet surface on the otherpart of the foot, whereas your fingers
look really long because your palms aren'tthat big. Right, But when you
look closely at a lot of thesefootprint casts, their toes are almost as

(26:33):
long as your fingers are, andthey bend almost as much, if probably
maybe even as much, we don'tknow. But and when you add to
that the midfoot flexibility, remember thatmidfoot flexibility isn't just too This isn't just
an up and down motion. It'sa left and right motion as well as
kind of an oblique sort of thingbending back and forth as well. Their

(26:56):
feet are very very bendy Now thosefeet are carrying around a mass of five
or eight hundred pounds and stepping onthe ground each time in this uneven,
sloppy terrain that they prefer to livein. All sorts of things can change
the shape and distort the impression thatthose feet leave. Imagine walking on your

(27:17):
hands and all the differentiation that eachprint would have one from another. Right,
So that's kind of what you're dealingwith. Never forget that when you're
dealing with sasquatch feet or footprints,Never forget that that their feet are so
bendy and malleable. They're capable ofsome very strange distortions themselves. But when

(27:37):
you take into account that, like, that's not even the shape of the
foot. You have this bendy thingleaving an impression in the ground, and
that impression is a half a secondin length over time, right, And
then there's the shifting of the weightand the direction of travel, and the
slope of the ground and the watercontent of the ground, and all these
other variables play into it. Thereare probably close to an infinite number of
variety of ways that that foot canimpress, and sometimes double strikes happen in

(28:02):
the toes, leaving the no punintended impression of having six toes. But
they do not. They have five. Sometimes they're just hoaxes thoughn that's another
short answer. Yeah, I getasked about this a lot, so I'm
certain whatever people ask me about frequently, they ask you guys about about fifty
times more. But there was ahoax that was perpetrated on coast to coast

(28:22):
am years ago by a guy whocalled himself Bugs in Texas. Oh yeah,
yeah. He claimed that he gotand killed two Sasquatches, and it
was later sort of sussed out thathe was a local radio personality and a
lot of people recognized his voice.But even in his fictional story about dispatching
two Sasquatches, he said that theyhad two rows of teeth, and if

(28:45):
I'm not mistaken, he also saidthat they had six fingers and six toes.
And so it is a recurring tropethat even hoaxers today try to,
you know, mix into their storiesbecause it makes their stories comport with these
sort of legendary tale too. Youknow, I wouldn't mind having six fingers
if I could have two thumbs.It really makes sense for your seven string

(29:06):
guitar playing I suppose it would,right, right, let's move to an
eighth string. What about you,Bo? Do people ask you about that
story a lot? Uh, notanymore than you used to? But yeah,
that was a I mean that wasgeez. That was like fifteen to
twenty years ago. It was.But it resurfaces all the time when things
like Ready and TikTok. People clipit because you know, those old episodes
ended up on YouTube and so peopleclip those and then it's like, what's

(29:30):
the story. There's a new story. Remember Robert Morgan was in some of
those episodes of movie Oh yeah,yeah, yeahs to drawing the map and
he was going to go find itand all that, and so yeah,
it's one of those things that comesback to life every few years. It
definitely pops up on STAZ. Staytuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
and Bogo. We'll be right backafter these messages. All right, Well,

(29:56):
here is the next voice man,Hi, Cliff and Bobo. My
name is Robert from Saint Augustine,Florida. I have a question. I
was just wondering how come finding Bigfootnever went to the Monster Quest cabin on
snow Grove Lake and also have anyone of you guys ever been to Saint
Augustine. Thank you have a greatday, Robert. I was in Saint

(30:19):
Augustine last night. Beautiful town.We had a great time. Yeah,
we looked into going there. Wewere definitely, we were pretty psyched on
it, but it was pretty expensiveto get in there, and it was
pretty remote, and just the wholelogistics wasn't really working out, and that
Cavin rents out way ahead of time. It's like a popular cabin besides the
big Foot stuff. It's real popularwith fishermen, like you got a book

(30:41):
early and so, yeah, wedidn't get up there, but it was
definitely spoken about. Yeah. Imean remember there were sixteen of us on
the road on finding Bigfoot, fourcast members and twelve other folks, and
still Grove Lake cabin is from anunderstand a cabin, you know, And
it was bad enough sometimes when theyhad, you know, us for cast
members sleep in the same cabin letalone, all sixteen of us. It

(31:03):
wouldn't have happened. They just likethat you couldn't accommodate a crew our size
in such a location, especially whenyou have to take a floatplane in Doug
hijack just went there. I thinkin August. He was going to try
to obtain that screwboard for our museumand do some fishing and stuff like.
That screwboard is somewhere else at thismoment. He's trying to track it down
or and that's what he told me, trying to track it down for us.

(31:26):
We'll see about that, but yeah, that's just not the place that
we can do that sort of filmingbecause you need to have access to a
lot of things that just would notbe available there. We're kind of a
big production at the end of theday. Finding Bigfoot was a pretty big
production, you know, and allthese guys had to have like, you
know, recharge their equipment every nightand the battery packs. Yeah, there's

(31:47):
no generator there, solar, Yeah, they have to They're in contact with
the production company back in LA andstuff all the time and shooting things around
to the network. And yeah,there's it's a big, big thing,
you know, and impossible to doat such a location. Can you imagine
how many float planes it would havetaken to get you guys in the entire
crew and all that equipment there.Oh dude, Yeah, I only had

(32:09):
one plane to going in and out, so it would have been just is
logistically it was not happening. Yeah, I think how hard like Nepal was
for us, because that's probably asclose as we came to such an isolated
location, you know, because therewas electricity up there, but I don't
even know how they generated it.It wasn't wires or anything, was it.
I mean they had water hydropower.Oh, they had hydropower up there.

(32:31):
That makes sense. Yeah, becausewe had to take what three helicopters
and farius back and forth, andyeah, it was it was a big
thing to get us all up there. It wasn't easy for all of them,
especially, you know. But yeah, I think snow Grove this the
accommodations just could not support a filmcrew of sixteen. Essentially, we probably

(32:52):
narrowed it. I mean we probablytraveled with twelve or fourteen to Nepaul though,
we you know, to shave offsome of the extra weight, so
to speak. Saint Augustine though,yeah, I've been to Saint Augustine.
I spoke at Lauren Coleman's cryptoology conferenceback in I don't even know what year,
twenty fourteen maybe or something. Idon't know what year, because you
know, you know, my senseof time is weird. No, I
would think it was there. Itwas lovely though, nice little town.

(33:13):
It's not far from some good habitateither in the Ocala Wildlife Management Area and
the O'calla National Forest. There's alot of reports. But yeah, I'd
never been there before. But Iwas just there for one night, literally
last night. It was amazing.It was super cool town, lots of
cool history and never been there.I've seen like, yeah, I've seen
it on travel shows and stuff placeslike forrad Yeah, it's totally cute.

(33:34):
It's a neat town. We didthe ghost tour and the night before we
had done a ghost tour in Savannahbecause it's funny. You just ride around
and they tell you a lot ofthe history. But both hosts were referencing
people that we've had on this podcast, and I just didn't say anything,
but they were talking about, youknow, various TV shows, and I
was like, oh, yeah,Cliff and Bobo had them on this podcast.
Were they ghost nerds like they weretalking about, Yeah, they were

(33:57):
totally ghost nerds. And of coursethey were like, you know, asking
people if they believed or disbelieved orwere fence sitters, And I just didn't
raise my hand because on any ofthe questions, because obviously I have a
very large noticeable sasquatch silhouette tattoo,and so to raise my hands, especially
if it's a matter of fin sittingor disbelief while being you know, emblazoned

(34:20):
with sasquatch iconography is like the totalthrowing stones and glasshouses sort of a thing.
So I just stayed quiet. Right, it's like the scarlet a or
the mark of the beast or something. Who could believe such hogwash? Anyway,
on this week's episode of a BigFoot of Beyond Right, well,
I hope that helps Robert. Shouldwe go to the next question question?

(34:42):
Good eye, Cliff, and byebye. Paul. Here from Australia.
Many years ago, I had theprivilege of interviewing the light Great Rex S.
Gilroy. What a legend. Onething that he said that fascinated me
was that he felt strongly that Haimoerectus had survived on the Australian consonent why
into modern times many many sightings ofsasquat slash yow He's he believed were in

(35:05):
fact sidings of Homo erectus. Somy question is that, while I'm hoping
that you must have had some contact, perhaps talk with Rex yourself over the
years before he passed, did youever hear such a tale? And what
are your thoughts? Love the show? Thanks again from down I'm to keep
up the great work. Cheers.Yeah, I talked to him. He
kind of had the beginnings of dementiago and we were down there to film.

(35:30):
He's interesting guy. Yeah, Iwas amazed. Like his butterfly collection,
he said, like the biggest butterflyprivate collection in all Australia. He
was a noted geologist. He wasan all around interesting guy. I'm not
sure about all his theories on theHarmonid line lineage that would account for the
Yawi and stuff. I don't know. I think some of this stuff was

(35:52):
kind of disproven by general anthropologists andgeologists. Yeah, you know, home
Erectus remains had never been found onUsustralia. Of course, the type specimen
was found in Java, which isn'tthat far away. It's in Indonesia,
of course, so maybe they've gotthere eventually. But home Erectus fossils have
never been uncovered from Australia. Thenagain, neither have all sorts of other

(36:13):
things that could be the AWI essentially, so that doesn't discount it. But
I don't think that Homo Erectus isa good candidate for the Ayui. Honestly,
home Erectus used tool the tools theycontrolled fire from. Understand they're smaller,
and you know, they're just ahair under five about six feet tall.
I don't think they're a good candidate. We don't have a lot of
photographic evidence of the Aoi, butwe do have those interesting thermal hits,

(36:37):
a couple of those over the lastcouple of years, and that kind of
thing that those particular thermal hits,to me, at least the silhouette that
is that has shown to us stronglysuggests sasquatch to me. But Cliff,
you always say you like Paris wassmaller than that. Yeah, yeah,
Parantapis was four or five feet tall, but home Erectus had was much more

(36:58):
recent as well and had less timeto evolve. And the reason I think
that paranthropists is a decent candidate forsasquatches is that they are identical to sasquatches
pretty much, and if they wentnorthward, they would have gotten into colder
climates, and colder climates will makean animal grow larger over generations. I
don't know how large the Java manwas, how large the Indonesian home erectus

(37:22):
was, but I would bet thatthey were on the smaller side of the
scale because of Bergmann's rule. That'dbe my feel on that feeling of that
one. But I think the tooluse and the fire use and all that
sort of stuff that automatically eliminates homeerectus from being what the Yaui probably is
because fire and tool use. Tome, I could be wrong, but

(37:43):
to me seems like too useful ofa adaptation to get rid of once you
obtain it. So there aren't storiesof yaoi's, you know, doing flint
napping and making spears and controlling fire, so I don't think that's a good
candidate for them. Hello from SouthAfrica, A big fan of the podcast.
Here all the way on the tipof the continent. I have a

(38:06):
fun fact and a question for you, gentlemen. So the fun fact is
is that the indigenous peoples of SouthAfrica have many myths and legends about a
small hairy man known as a tacolosh. The Tokolosh is known as a trickster
and someone or something that can besometimes used for nefarious purposes by witches and
warlocks. And then my question forCliff, Bobo and Matt Well let's not

(38:30):
forget him is the paleontology. Inthe paleontological world, there have been issues
around fossils falling into the hands ofprivate collectors and never being available for scientific
study or research. And the questionthat I have is what stories or rumors

(38:52):
or reports have you guys come acrossof perhaps samples or even who knows,
spacimens which have fallen into the handsof private collectors and maybe we'll never see
the light of day. Thanks guys, really love the podcast, Keep it
up. The first thing that comesto mind is the vast majority of Bigfooters

(39:14):
don't share their stuff at all,really, it seems. And that's not
necessarily because they're selfish or anything likethat. Otherwise, in some cases people
protective protect their finds feverishly and don'tlet anybody else see them. And I
think those people are very often theones who probably either have you know,

(39:34):
cast human prints, or don't likethe scrutiny of other people and their opinions
and that sort of or maybe areafraid that their stuff will come to light
as not true or something like that. I know, it seems like a
lot of people collect stories about theirencounters of sasquatches, for example. And
I'm not saying that this is anexample of what this gentleman's asking for,
but stories are a very safe wayto show other people you have in our

(40:00):
actions with sasquatches. Because you don'thave to prove anything. You have comfort
in the fact that you know thisjuvenile came on the hill when it was
playing with your tent or you know, throwing rope around or building whatever,
that kind of thing, because youdon't have to prove anything to anybody,
Whereas if you have evidence of it, well, then you may have to
face the fact that maybe this you'remisidentifying something. And I think a lot

(40:22):
of people don't share evidence for thatreason because as long as nobody else sees
it, nobody else can refute it. But in some cases, other people
just like I collect the stuff formy own purposes and I don't care,
and I kind of respect that inno way, although I'd like to see
it too, you know, Andof course I think we've all heard.
I mean, we've talked about iton the show lots of times, and
I know Bobo has several stories ofthis sort of thing where people have photographs

(40:45):
or videos or game camera pictures orsomething like that that they just don't want
out there because they don't want thescrutiny or they don't want the attention or
you know, the ridicule and thatsort of thing. Yeah, as far
as I was, like like thoseEgyptologists that people like buy looted treasures,

(41:05):
you know, ancient treasures, likethere's that giant market, I think he
was asked if there's anything like thata big Foot. I don't think there's
anything like that was a big footat all. Well, I think he
meant, like, what stories havewe heard about people finding fossils or bones
or remains and then choosing to keepit in a personal collection rather than like
submitting it to an institution or something. Well, the only thing I know
about that would be, uh,that's that I not as real as Mike

(41:29):
Ruggs tooth. They wanted to destroyso much with it, it would have
destroyed the whole tooth to do atest, and he was he didn't want
to do because he thought the technologywasn't up to snuff yet. But I
don't know what his deal with thatis now. I've been talking to him
about it all the years. Dahn. There's so many stories. I mean,
the Minaret skull story comes to mind. I know we've talked about that

(41:50):
before, but I'll put a linkto that in the show notes. I
mean I personally heard stories. Iheard one not that long ago that didn't
go anywhere, a gentleman in Canadawho claimed to have shot one and collected
the bones and had some of themin storage and some of them buried somewhere.
I mean, those kind of storiesoccur all the time, but like
Cliffs said, they're just stories likeno one's. They're not associated with like

(42:12):
photos or even a fragment of thebone. It's just people making claims.
Yeah. I literally heard one ofthose last week or the week before,
like in the museum. Yeah,because somebody came in and I know this
person, and they shot a sasquatch. They thought it was somebody trying to
break into their chicken coop or somethinglike that. They shot it and buried
it back and then like this,there's a very old man who shared this

(42:36):
story with somebody about his father killinga sasquatch, you know, maybe in
the forties or fifties or actually itwasn't that long ago, thinking about that,
when I said forty, it wasactually forty years ago to have been
like the eighties or something like that. Yeah, I literally heard a story
like last week or the week beforeabout this sort of thing, and I
just said, well, he caneither come forth and prove the species and
spare the lives of all the otherones, or he can go to the

(42:58):
grave with this story, and thereyou go. He just sentenced another one
to death his choice. Tell himthat, please, And if you want
this serious wants somebody to seriously lookinto this, here's my number. Call
me. But nothing. You knowsomeone who has a lot of those sorts
of stories, and I think hetold some of them on this podcast,
but I know we had a lotof conversations about it off the record,
so I can't remember because it's beena couple of years, but it was

(43:20):
Ken Walker, the famous taxidermis inCanada. Had talked to so many people
who claim, like, oh,yeah, I know a hunter who has
shot one or found one, orhas bones or a pelt or a tooth
or a jaw. I mean itwent on and on, and so yeah,
those stories are in abundance. Aidenthey just at this stage they're just
claims, unfortunately, but they're definitelyworth chasing me out. If there's any

(43:40):
story that's worth chasing down, it'sthat sort of story. But other people
have a bunch of footprint casts,and because I'd come across that a lot,
because that's kind of what I like, you know, a lot of
footprint casts and don't really share them, or they might bring a couple by
the shoppers, like this one orwhatever, and then but I'm interested in
data behind them, like when andwhere where they found. And sometimes people

(44:02):
are just hard to nail down ordon't or don't want to share their store
their locations, even though I mayeven already know where they are, but
they don't want to share the datain that sort of way because you know,
they worked really hard at it.I understand that they worked really hard.
You know, if you if youif you walk up and down a
river all day long and you findthree or four fishing holes that always produce

(44:22):
fish, I may not want totell where those locations are either, you
know, I get it. Butat the same time, I would tell
my buddies, you know, I'dtell you guys, and you can go
catch those same fish. I thinkthat's important. So I don't know,
I say it a lot. Datanot shared is exactly the same as not
having any data at all. Yeah, That's why I have a museum.

(44:43):
That's why I'm doing the archiving project. I had the I had Joanna or
our volunteer at the museum here.She was here for six hours, eight
hours a day or something, orsix or seven hours today archiving stuff from
the you know, from the ChuckEdmonds collection, the Barbara Watson collection,
making a big archive of this stuff, and eventually it's going to go online

(45:05):
for the public to utilize, becauseI do believe it's important to share data,
you know, and I'm trying tofigure out the best way to do
that with my footprint cast, withmy historic collections here at the NABC,
maybe even putting some of the NABCexhibits online, you know, like doing
like a walkthrough or a talkthrough orsomething like that. I don't know's I've
got all sorts of ideas and solimited time, so we'll see. Stay

(45:30):
tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond withCliff and Bobo. We'll be right back
after these messages. Our first submissionis from Matthew Davis and the Finding Bigfoot
episode titled Holy Cow It's Bigfoot wasthe response during the final night investigation,

(45:50):
A real Bigfoot. That was probablythe best I've heard from the show.
What show is that? I wonder? Holy Cow? Yeah, I know,
I got to look that up because, honestly, Matthew, I don't
think about the up episodes by theirnames. I think about them by the
location. Yeah, we never evenknew what the name was. And there's
only one name that I remember,and it's a DRONI loves Joji. Okay,

(46:14):
let's see where this Holy Cow It'sBigfoot mysterious video and reports from Utah
State University. Oh okay, thatwas uhle see Moneymaker's hair is short.
So that's early on. Let's seewhen what season? This was twenty twelve,
season two March March twenty twelve.Yeah, so that was first that

(46:35):
was second season. It had tobe second season. That's where we went
to that hardware ranch or something likethat. I remember that Bobo oh or
the Elkore in the winter. Yeah, exactly. That was on my birthday,
I might add, So that wasthat was twelve years ago, No,
eleven years ago, yesterday, No, that's not right. It was
that we filmed that in twenty eleven. We must have so episode. Yeah,
it was Thanksgiving where we had thatrat Thanksgiving that how Yeah, yeah,

(47:00):
bear Lake. That was cool.I guess today's two days after my
birthday. So yeah, that wastwelve years and two days ago. Interesting
birthday. Oh, thank you,I appreciate that. Well, yeah,
that was absolutely real. That wasan awesome vocalization from that hardware ranch or
whatever that was called, and thekind of outside of Salt Lake City somewhere.
I don't know where that is,but I imagine our local Utah listeners

(47:23):
probably do. That was a greatnight. That was a lot of fun.
It was a great night, exceptfor the snow, because you know,
I don't like snow. But thatwas a good vocalization and we're pretty
stoked to get it. That wasone of the better ones that recorded.
We probably I probably heard better onesover the nine years of filming that show,
But as far as the recordings andhow they turned out, that one

(47:43):
worked really well. Yeah, becauseas as any veteran of the field knows
what you hear with your ears isalmost always better than what you would get
on the recorder. Yeah, unlessyou got a really good recorder, that's
the opposite. Yeah, yeah,like a parabolic or something. Those few
times that Tyler balance captured things onpair of all for us anyway, So
yeah, that's the real deal.It was a good, good vocalization.

(48:04):
We're pretty stoked on it, andthere you go. Next question, this
one comes from Greg Brush. Heasked, did anyone keep one of the
camera backpacks used during the night investigations. It would be a cool addition to
the museum, That is true,but I was more than willing to get
those things the hell out of mylife and stay out of my life.
Mine's burned. Yeah, I wouldlove to have one of those because I

(48:27):
think it would be really really cool. But at the same time, Ping
Pong Productions has those, and theyprobably recycled them and regurgitated them for other
shows or something like that. Yougot it, and you gotta do like
the original ones where the screws runbackwards, so the screws went into your
actual bath instead of the other way. Yeah, they really showed their appreciation
for us at first. Yeah,they had like these four inch four or

(48:50):
five inch long bolts that were keepingthings on and they would just go in
just an inch or two to theleft or right of your spine at various
places. It was cool. Youcould make one pretty yeah, I know,
but wouldn't be the same. I'vegot some finding Bigfoot stuff up in
the museum, like the bat fromLousville Slugger, and I have the map
from the organ episode because you know, we're an organ, so that sort

(49:13):
of stuff. But yeah, thebackpacks would be cool, But also,
my museum isn't about finding Bigfoot.Finding Bigfoot was a blip on the screen
for me. It was nine yearsof my life a long time, of
course, and I deeply appreciate theopportunity. But at the same time,
I'm onto bigger and better things andTV shows at this point. Man.
Yeah, I really think about it. Yeah, Yeah, it was a
lot of fun, don't get mewrong. But I think I've done better

(49:35):
work since finding Bigfoot. Honestly,I think the stuff that we've been getting
here at the museum, that ourmembers know about because you know, they
get to see our documentaries, Ithink that stuff is of way higher value
than anything we did on Finding Bigfoot. Absolutely, why don't we take one
last question? It's all you bobs. Last question name Perry Message, good
day, love the show. Ilistened to Bobo's interview on Joe Rogan ton

(50:00):
of times and would love to knowwhen or if you both go back on
and school him a bit more.Also, when are we going to get
Pobo's big book A Bigfoot? Ah? I love the show. Rogan.
Yeah, he's not a big fanof the Squatch. He went up to
Washington for like a week with theseguys and I guess they were like one
of the guys really turned him off, you know it. It was like,

(50:21):
I know it all like there werethings in the brush that he said
these guys had squatched on the brain. They were trying to say all these
different things were bigfoot reate and hesaid, as far as you can tell,
they absolutely were not. They werelike normal animal sounds and this and
that, and he uh, yeah, he got he got pretty when I
left the show. When I leftto his studio that day, he was

(50:42):
like he kept but like he said, you gotta come back, you gotta
come back. You know, yougot to come back. And I was
supposed to go on like through theirtimes and I this sounds totally stupid,
but we were so busy I forgotto call him and to go back and
then uh, then he got Thenhe went out on that with those guys
and got totally turned off to thewhole thing. But yeah, I think
if the squatch thing breaks, you'dhave us on for sure. That's That's

(51:05):
one of my biggest regrets in lifeis that I totally went you know,
like with the guys that were tellinglike melbows the real deal, and I
went in pretty hard on the rogantthings, saying like this is going to
prove it all, you know,and then got egg on the face.
Well, that's one of the dangersof speaking about sasquatches at all. If
you talk enough, you're going tobe wrong a fair amount. Oh yeah,

(51:28):
you know, And as long asyou're okay with that going in,
then everything's fine. It's always thosepeople that like you were incorrect when you
said this back in the days,Well, dud, dude, I'm talking
about bigfoot. I'm probably wrong alot. Nobody knows anything. Yeah,
that was the the but that waslike a bigger mistake, as you could
or you know, the biggest areayou could publicly state front, you know,
the last fifteen years. Well,at least you got the big one

(51:49):
over with them, smooth sailing fromhere on out, Bobs, we'll see,
all right. Well, I guessthat was the last question for Q
and A for this month. Actually, no, we didn't even do one
in November. I'm a little sadabout that. I missed it, So
I don't know. Maybe we'll bustout too this month and make it even
up, but maybe not, becausethis is December. Now, this December,

(52:10):
we're running out of time this yearand we got another year. Today's
November. Yeah, but when thisairs, it is not so they won't
even notice. We won't even notice. What's that calendar for anyway? So
anyway, yeah, that was thelast question for our big fit to be
on Q and A for right now. We'll do another one of these things
soon because we enjoy it. Maybewe even get to a topical one this

(52:30):
month. But thank you all forlistening. Sure appreciate it. And now
we're going to go record the membersection because we do a special member's only
Q and A every single month,and if you do want to become a
member, you get all sorts ofextra time with Cliff and the Bobes.
You get like an hour a weekor something like that, give or take
a little bit. And we're alittle bit less editing on the side of
Matt Preuitch, which makes for slightlymore risky content at times. But anyway,

(52:55):
thank you all for listening. Bobes, why don't you take us out
of here? All right, folks, thanks for tuning in, and you
know what to do until next week, y'all keep it squatchy. Thanks for
listening to this week's episode of Bigfootand Beyond. If you liked what you
heard, please rate and review uson iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond

(53:19):
wherever you get your podcasts, andfollow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot
and Beyond podcast. You can findus on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's
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